FSG are not shit

[Pureblood]

I think the 142m sale of Coutinho seems to be the deciding factor and the driving force behind this from you. I don't ever remember you being particularly vocal against them previously (correct me on that if you were). I think we could have spent more than all of those clubs and still not won anything, because we would have wasted it. At what point do you accept that other people in the chain might have influence over it? For example, give Rodgers another 300m to take his spending about City. Would that be enough? We still wouldn't have beaten them over the long term because they buy better than us.

 

Coutinho isn't a deciding factor.  I've formed my view on the entirety of their ownership.  I don't like them, and I don't think they spend enough money to give us the best chances of being successful.  I also think they place too much emphasis upon CL qualification at the expense of silverware in general. 

 

I've already said I don't think it's reasonable for us to spend more than Man City. 

[Dave D]

Don't have to hear from him all the time but an acknowledgement would be nice now and again. instead he gets his missus to tweet and then she gets hells abuse.

 

Also didn't turn up for Kennys stand unveiling but could make the premier league pot money meetings.

 

Im not sure any club wants to be hearing from the owners really.

 

Unless your West Ham, then you havent got much choice

[BeefStroganoff]

FSG appointed Klopp- he confirmed, unless he is very good at deceiving us, that Coutinho forced the move.

 

The fact we havent re-invested the fee is concerning, but Klopp is definately party to that, no doubt about it.  

 

Thing is though that doesn't wash. He had a 5 year contract. He had no say. Are we not supposed to be a big club? We were steadfast in August so whats changed? You look at Leipzig, Monaco etc and they all stood firm.

[Numero Veinticinco]

You tell me?

Well, you're saying that they're not spending what is being generated by the club. I think it's fair that the burden of proof is on you. If we, as a club, are not spending what is being earned, the money must be going somewhere. The accounts show, clearly, that they don't take money out of the club - the opposite is true. Now, if the new accounts coming in May (I think) show that they're skimming money out of the club, then not only will I be massively surprised but I will want them gone. Obviously this doesn't include repayment of loans or anything like that, just paying themselves fat dividends. They've never once done that, because they're building the value of the asset. We have sold a load of shite players (and a few decent ones) that have, because the market has increased the cost of players, been sold for similar amounts to what we payed and that money has been reinvested. What they don't do, is what City and Chelsea owners have done, which is personally put in 100s of millions. If that's what people want, then welcome to my argument from 10 years ago when I was being called out for that. People wanted to spend what we earn. This is what that looks like. This, BTW, is what fan ownership would look like more or less.

 

The problem here is in reselling. Do you think FSG are going to say 'we will sell to only the best quality buyer who'll make LFC like PSG or City'? No, they'll sell to the highest bidder, as is their obligation. I suspect that'll be a bank-funded buy out. Welcome back Hicks and Gillett.

 

It's going to be an interesting few months, between now and the end of summer. We should have a lot of money to spend. If we spend it, people will have to close their mouth a bit. If not, those of us who have been saying 'be balanced' will have to start opening ours a little bit.

[TheHowieLama]

Come on the fannies

 

Up the fannies -- huh?

[BeefStroganoff]

I don't think Klopp is as honest and upstanding as we like to think he is. Anyway losing Coutinho was something we knew was going to happen at some point. What boils me is that we haven't prepared for it.

[TheHowieLama]

Up them

 

Missed this -- on phone 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Coutinho isn't a deciding factor.  I've formed my view on the entirety of their ownership.  I don't like them, and I don't think they spend enough money to give us the best chances of being successful.  I also think they place too much emphasis upon CL qualification at the expense of silverware in general. 

 

I've already said I don't think it's reasonable for us to spend more than Man City.

Fair enough, so we will rule City out. We spend around the same as Chelsea and United (over the seven year period) and more than Spurs and Arsenal. Chelsea and United have more spending power than us. So really you're saying that we should be spending in between City and the other two. My contention is, that wouldn't have resulted in us winning anything. Not with us spending in the way wee did.

[Dave D]

Coutinho isn't a deciding factor.  I've formed my view on the entirety of their ownership.  I don't like them, and I don't think they spend enough money to give us the best chances of being successful.  I also think they place too much emphasis upon CL qualification at the expense of silverware in general. 

 

I've already said I don't think it's reasonable for us to spend more than Man City. 

 

FSG dont rest the first team when we get knocked out of the league cup (there are only 4 trophies we can win, 2 of which would require enormous skill, consitency and lots of luck)

 

The folly of the weakened team approach to the cups is it can only be judged as shrewd if you actually succeed in the other competitions for which you have rested the players for? 

[BeefStroganoff]

W

 

Well, you're saying that they're not spending what is being generated by the club. I think it's fair that the burden of proof is on you. If we, as a club, are not spending what is being earned, the money must be going somewhere. The accounts show, clearly, that they don't take money out of the club - the opposite is true. Now, if the new accounts coming in May (I think) show that they're skimming money out of the club, then not only will I be massively surprised but I will want them gone. Obviously this doesn't include repayment of loans or anything like that, just paying themselves fat dividends. They've never once done that, because they're building the value of the asset. We have sold a load of shite players (and a few decent ones) that have, because the market has increased the cost of players, been sold for similar amounts to what we payed and that money has been reinvested. What they don't do, is what City and Chelsea owners have done, which is personally put in 100s of millions. If that's what people want, then welcome to my argument from 10 years ago when I was being called out for that. People wanted to spend what we earn. This is what that looks like. This, BTW, is what fan ownership would look like more or less.

The problem here is in reselling. Do you think FSG are going to say 'we will sell to only the best quality buyer who'll make LFC like PSG or City'? No, they'll sell to the highest bidder, as is their obligation. I suspect that'll be a bank-funded buy out. Welcome back Hicks and Gillett.

It's going to be an interesting few months, between now and the end of summer. We should have a lot of money to spend. If we spend it, people will have to close their mouth a bit. If not, those of us who have been saying 'be balanced' will have to start opening ours a little bit.

We haven't spent what we have earned though have we? thats the point. Purchases have been offset by sales. You tell me where the money is? Moved to Red Sox? offshore?

[BeefStroganoff]

FSG dont rest the first team when we get knocked out of the league cup (there are only 4 trophies we can win, 2 of which would require enormous skill, consitency and lots of luck)

 

The folly of the weakened team approach to the cups is it can only be judged as shrewd if you actually succeed in the other competitions for which you have rested the players for? 

We rest the team because we have no depth. Every window its like 3-4 out and two in.

[TheHowieLama]

14 posts ( 8 in the last 30 minutes)  - 5 years.

 

Yesssss...I like Strokemeoff

[Numero Veinticinco]

W

 

We haven't spent what we have earned though have we? thats the point. Purchases have been offset by sales. You tell me where the money is? Moved to Red Sox? offshore?

No, you can't do that. You can't just move money to the Red Sox or to an Offshore account and hope nobody notices. It needs to be in the accounts. There is no 'money'. You seem to be equating transfer spending with how much we have coming in. You've forgotten about wages, stadium, running costs, etc. If we wanted to increase spending, we can do that a number of ways. Firstly, we can increase income and revenue (tickets, shirts, tv, prize money), and secondly they can spend loads of money out of their own pockets, like Chelsea and City have. There's no 'money' that isn't being spent. They have put money into the club (in the way of low interest or interest free loans). That's not an opinion, it's in the accounts.

[Pureblood]

Fair enough, so we will rule City out. We spend around the same as Chelsea and United (over the seven year period) and more than Spurs and Arsenal. Chelsea and United have more spending power than us. So really you're saying that we should be spending in between City and the other two. My contention is, that wouldn't have resulted in us winning anything. Not with us spending in the way wee did.

 

I don't like the sell to buy policy, I think it sucks and makes it difficult for a manager to hold the squad together.  This in turn makes it hard to build continuity and very difficult to win trophies.  You then have a very heavy emphasis on CL qualification above cups, and the end result is one major trophy in a decade.  Not good enough for LFC, never will be. 

[s(k)aturation]

Yesssss...I like Strokemeoff

 

 

With buttered noodles, especially.

[Ranxerox]

So finishing above them and in the CL would be. (No question mark)

A step forward

[Numero Veinticinco]

I don't like the sell to buy policy, I think it sucks and makes it difficult for a manager to hold the squad together.  This in turn makes it hard to build continuity and very difficult to win trophies.  You then have a very heavy emphasis on CL qualification above cups, and the end result is one major trophy in a decade.  Not good enough for LFC, never will be.

I've heard a few people say 'buy to sell'. I don't think that holds up to scrutiny. We do sell a lot of players, mostly because a new manager comes in and has to clear out the old shit. Klopp has sold one player he would have wanted to say, and that wasn't because he needed to spend money. At least that's what he says.

 

My point here, mate, is that look at the entire picture of who we've spent the money on, the choice of the managers, look at why we sold most players, look beyond all that. I wouldn't deny that things have been a shambles, but only some of it is due to FSG, in my view. I'd like to see JWH more involved, if anything.

[Pureblood]

I've heard a few people say 'buy to sell'. I don't think that holds up to scrutiny. We do sell a lot of players, mostly because a new manager comes in and has to clear out the old shit. Klopp has sold one player he would have wanted to say, and that wasn't because he needed to spend money. At least that's what he says.

 

My point here, mate, is that look at the entire picture of who we've spent the money on, the choice of the managers, look at why we sold most players, look beyond all that. I wouldn't deny that things have been a shambles, but only some of it is due to FSG, in my view. I'd like to see JWH more involved, if anything.

 

I would agree with you if Sterling, Suarez and Coutinho were shit.  Unfortunately for us, they're not. 

 

They also made a concerted effort to get high wage earners off the books.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I would agree with you if Sterling, Suarez and Coutinho were shit.  Unfortunately for us, they're not.

How could we have kept hold of them though, man? Suarez, was biting people, trying to force moves to Arsenal and Barca for months. Coutinho was being a cunt, forcing his way out, going on strike. It seems like a managerial decision, the last one. We did tell them to fuck off, in the case of Suarez they met the clause and we still told them to fuck off. We will lose players to top sides, it happens. It happens to all bar one or two clubs.

[Pureblood]

How could we have kept hold of them though, man? Suarez, was biting people, trying to force moves to Arsenal and Barca for months. Coutinho was being a cunt, forcing his way out, going on strike. It seems like a managerial decision, the last one. We did tell them to fuck off, in the case of Suarez they met the clause and we still told them to fuck off. We will lose players to top sides, it happens. It happens to all bar one or two clubs.

 

I get what you're saying, it just seems to happen to us more than most.  It would be okay if we didn't replace Suarez with Balotelli and Lambert, and Coutinho with nobody.

 

For once in the eight or whatever years it is they've owned us I would like them to roll the dice and say "fuck it" without selling someone first.  

 

Look at all the embarrassing transfer sagas we've been involved in over the years.  A long list.

 

As a fan, it takes its toll on me, erodes my trust in them and I end up resenting them being our owners.  Believe me, it's not how I would choose things to be.

[Ranxerox]

All the good ones eventually want out though. We're a selling club now and players see us as a stepping stone. If Salah keeps his form he'll be off sometime in the next 3 windows. Keita has already talked about LFC being the next "step" in his career.

 

Henry won't get more involved because he isn't interested.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I get what you're saying, it just seems to happen to us more than most.  It would be okay if we didn't replace Suarez with Balotelli and Lambert, and Coutinho with nobody.

 

For once in the eight or whatever years it is they've owned us I would like them to roll the dice and say "fuck it" without selling someone first.  

 

Look at all the embarrassing transfer sagas we've been involved in over the years.  A long list.

 

As a fan, it takes its toll on me, erodes my trust in them and I end up resenting them being our owners.  Believe me, it's now how I would choose things to be.

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm frustrated too. I mean, Balotelli, Lambert, and I could keep going. I just put this down to managers generally. The money we've spent - whether enough of or not - hasn't been spent wisely. Tell you what though, we've definitely been reactive and not proactive, so I'm with you on that. I feel like the trend had revered some what with Salah, Mane, et al. Coutinho... I guess we will see if that gets put back in. Fucking hope so.

[TheHowieLama]

Why neg Scoots post there?

 

What is there not to agree with?

 

Repped to restore sanity.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Why neg Scoots post there?

 

What is there not to agree with?

 

Repped to restore sanity.

'We're a selling club now'. 'Henry's not interested'. It's wank.

[TheHowieLama]

He is suggesting that the very top players we have will leave, they already have, they do -- and he is being kind. We have been a selling club in that sense for a decade or more. And Henry really does not care about that part. 

You are in danger of compromising some compelling internet points if you dont concede that - its true. If Salah is in the top three scorers this year and next someone at the top table will come knocking - are you saying this will be the time we dont answer the door?