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Dave D

FSG are not shit

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What Numero and Woolster have said.

 

Its so clear to me that we have certainly been given the correct backing to be successful. 

 

We just havent been very successful with that backing.

 

Lots of people still lay the majority of that blame at FSG for the internal/structural appointments that are the transfer commitee/negotiators.

 

Maybe, but to continually call for them out as asset strippers/negligent owners everytime we lose a game is daft.

 

Not to mention, unless they are of the City module of never ending riches, new owners will again be be faced with same set of questions, which will see us waiting for another 5 year plan to come to fruition   

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It’s the wages that we won’t compete with. They’re fine with transfer fees as that’s recycled within the game but the wages and agents fees are being taken out.

 

Look back at the Suarez replacement insanity when we went berserk on fees but bought players we didn’t have any competiton for. Look at the players we could have got for the fees of lalanna and markovic, yet I bet there 2 wages wouldn’t have been within a quarter of a fabregas.

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Hold on... we’ve not spent enough to be successful because we haven’t been successful!? What sort of logic is that! Leicester spent enough money to be successful but we haven’t even though we spent more? Maybe there’s other factors.

 

You could give Woy twice as much as City have spend and he still wouldn’t beat Pep. Player procurement has been horrendous. Transfer spending has been fine. We just keep throwing it away. Hundreds upon hundreds of millions on players who were shit.

 

It’s more grey than this black and white argument. They’re not great owners, but they are doing enough to compete over the long term if the others do their jobs.

 

It’s not just about spending. We all get so entrenched in our views, then drive each other deeper. It’s silly. There’s no defence of FSG, just an appeal to reason. A wider view.

 

I think the best part of a decade is a reasonable period of time in which to judge them.  It's not short term, it's approaching medium or long term.  In that period of time, we haven't been successful.  I think the main reason for this is a lack of spending commensurate to our rivals and focusing on Champions League qualification at the expense of domestic cups. 

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I think the main reason for this is a lack of spending commensurate to our rivals

Out of interest, who are our rivals and how do you judge them to be our rivals. Are you meaning City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea, or what?

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Out of interest, who are our rivals and how do you judge them to be our rivals. Are you meaning City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea, or what?

 

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Harry Kane XI and Arsenal. 

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I think the best part of a decade is a reasonable period of time in which to judge them.  It's not short term, it's approaching medium or long term.  In that period of time, we haven't been successful.  I think the main reason for this is a lack of spending commensurate to our rivals. 

 

Point is they gave Kenny a shitload of money and unfortunately it was not well spent even if he did win us a trophy. Good old Kenny. When Rodgers came in the purse strings were tightened somewhat but he was given all the Suarez money to spend. Again it was not spent well. Jurgen came in and money was made available to sign Mane Wijnaldum and Karius. We also spent £75m on van Dijk and no matter what some may say upwards of £60m or more to buy Keita.

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Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Harry Kane XI and Arsenal.

Two of those clubs have billionaire sugar daddies. Do you think it's reasonable to expect us to outspend them? City's owners could buy every club on world football and get everybody to play the game on an elaborate life-sized Subbuteo table. I'd wager that since they have been owners, we've spent more money on players than Arsenal and Spurts, similar amounts to Chelsea and United, with City blowing the rest out of the water. If that's true, and if I can be bothered I'll jot it up, it is enough for us to compete at the level Chelsea and United have.

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Kenny and Rodgers (country singer puns banned) were both backed to spend lots of money on some fairly average footballers.

 

Klopp has been backed to a similar level of spending and has signed some quite good footballers.

 

The credit and blame is to be distributed among them all really.

 

Currently, after some early learning curves, I would say FSG and Klopp seem to be a good balance.

 

If either of them get fucked off and pack their bags we could find ourselves really having something to moan about  

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Guest Alex_K

A remarkable twist. Liverpool FC fans arguing, in the midst of the least successful period in its post-war history and the sale of its best player slap bang in the middle of a European cup run, that the American hedge-fund ownership have over-invested in pursuit of success, and that the club are correctly equipped to compete for success with at least 5 other English football clubs whose spending in their squad/infrastracture clearly outstrips our own. The bar has fallen on the floor, and still there are some managing to wriggle underneath it.

 

Typically, if an asset or company quadruples in value (per Forbes valuation), it is accompanied by large spending and an expansion plan. Not ours. Sell your best players as they approach their peak, batten down the hatches and ride the crest of excuses and mediocrity into the next transfer window. Repeat.

 

Its not going to change. We're not going to change. And when Spurs and Chelsea arrive to their new grounds in the coming seasons, and Billy Hogan is still arguing the toss about raising ticket prices in order to tack a few thousand more seats onto the Anfield Road end, we really will begin to look like the provincial and sentimental old fools that FSG would have us be. Thank god for Klopp.

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Two of those clubs have billionaire sugar daddies. Do you think it's reasonable to expect us to outspend them?

 

No, but I think it's reasonable to expect us to spend more than we have.

 

I think it's unreasonable to sell a player for £142m mid-season and not immediately replace him, with as close to a like-for-like replacement as possible.   

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Kenny and Rodgers (country singer puns banned) were both backed to spend lots of money on some fairly average footballers.

 

Klopp has been backed to a similar level of spending and has signed some quite good footballers.

 

The credit and blame is to be distributed among them all really.

 

Currently, after some early learning curves, I would say FSG and Klopp seem to be a good balance.

 

If either of them get fucked off and pack their bags we could find ourselves really having something to moan about  

 

There is certainly a level of 'be careful what you wish for'

 

As mentioned prior  by some - entrenched opinions can distort and each opinion becomes loaded to suit that argument, but I'm with a few on here and you daved. They(JK & FSG) seem right now a good balance, a fairer and more balanced view would be to give this marriage another year or two, as for me, and I think and hope the same of them - they don't want to do a Leicester, I think once they get the blend of recruitments and all that goes with that right, I believe they want to stay there. I don't want to just win it the once, I want to stay there and win it again and I honestly hope they think that also. 

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It’s the wages that we won’t compete with. They’re fine with transfer fees as that’s recycled within the game but the wages and agents fees are being taken out.

 

Look back at the Suarez replacement insanity when we went berserk on fees but bought players we didn’t have any competiton for. Look at the players we could have got for the fees of lalanna and markovic, yet I bet there 2 wages wouldn’t have been within a quarter of a fabregas.

 

Bingo.

 

And thats where this all falls on its arse. These owners are shite. And worst of all they've managed to convince half the fan base with little soundbites. The latest being Klopp will only accept his first choices targets. Utter bullshit.

 

Where is John Henry? Haven't seen or heard from him for about a year.

 

But the biggest disappointment is Klopp. His interviews are wearing thin and this pure football nonsense is pissing me off. This guy messed up last January and it looks like he's gonna do the same this time around except with more at stake.

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Two of those clubs have billionaire sugar daddies. Do you think it's reasonable to expect us to outspend them? City's owners could buy every club on world football and get everybody to play the game on an elaborate life-sized Subbuteo table. I'd wager that since they have been owners, we've spent more money on players than Arsenal and Spurts, similar amounts to Chelsea and United, with City blowing the rest out of the water. If that's true, and if I can be bothered I'll jot it up, it is enough for us to compete at the level Chelsea and United have.

 

Who says outspend them? No one is saying that nor expects that. But we do expect reinvestment from TV money and Champions league on top of player sales. Currently its sell to buy.

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No, but I think it's reasonable to expect us to spend more than we have.

 

I think it's unreasonable to sell a player for £142m mid-season and not immediately replace him, with as close to a like-for-like replacement as possible.

That one things aside, because you're talking long term FSG ownership, not short term management decisions (unless you're claiming that Klopp wants to buy but FSG won't let him, or that FSG should force a player on him. Both of those are stupid, so I assumed you weren't meaning those?), you think we should have spent more than we have. That would have put us above both Chelsea - oligarch owner plaything tax dodge shithole - and United, the most profitable club in the world. I mean, there's only so much you can expect.

 

I think the 142m sale of Coutinho seems to be the deciding factor and the driving force behind this from you. I don't ever remember you being particularly vocal against them previously (correct me on that if you were). I think we could have spent more than all of those clubs and still not won anything, because we would have wasted it. At what point do you accept that other people in the chain might have influence over it? For example, give Rodgers another 300m to take his spending about City. Would that be enough? We still wouldn't have beaten them over the long term because they buy better than us.

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Who says outspend them? No one is saying that nor expects that. But we do expect reinvestment from TV money and Champions league on top of player sales. Currently its sell to buy.

So where's the leftover money?

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Bingo.

 

And thats where this all falls on its arse. These owners are shite. And worst of all they've managed to convince half the fan base with little soundbites. The latest being Klopp will only accept his first choices targets. Utter bullshit.

 

Where is John Henry? Haven't seen or heard from him for about a year.

 

But the biggest disappointment is Klopp. His interviews are wearing thin and this pure football nonsense is pissing me off. This guy messed up last January and it looks like he's gonna do the same this time around except with more at stake.

 

Why do you want to hear from John Henry?

 

Abromovich and the City owners dont give interviews or statements?

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So where's the leftover money?

 

You tell me? We've had an average net spend of 25 mil a season. Most of our buys have been offset by sales, players like Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho, Sakho, Benteke and a lot of other cast offs and young players.

 

You go back and look at our ins and outs, and you can usually see that they are very, very close.

 

Heres what I think - I think Keita is paid for out of next summers kitty. I think the OX, Salah and VVD have been paid for by Coutinhos sale. Its telling that Coutinho was kept and under no circumstance allowed to leave in the summer, knowing we couldn't get VVD. As soon as VVD is sanctioned we soften on Coutinho and let him go citing he'd be impossible to work with and even that was a fucking lame excuse.

 

We apparently offered money for Lemar in the summer so whats changed in six months? Smells like bullshit to appease the masses.

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Why do you want to hear from John Henry?

 

Abromovich and the City owners dont give interviews or statements?

Don't have to hear from him all the time but an acknowledgement would be nice now and again. instead he gets his missus to tweet and then she gets hells abuse.

 

Also didn't turn up for Kennys stand unveiling but could make the premier league pot money meetings.

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A remarkable twist. Liverpool FC fans arguing, in the midst of the least successful period in its post-war history and the sale of its best player slap bang in the middle of a European cup run, that the American hedge-fund ownership have over-invested in pursuit of success, and that the club are correctly equipped to compete for success with at least 5 other English football clubs whose spending in their squad/infrastracture clearly outstrips our own. The bar has fallen on the floor, and still there are some managing to wriggle underneath it.

 

Typically, if an asset or company quadruples in value (per Forbes valuation), it is accompanied by large spending and an expansion plan. Not ours. Sell your best players as they approach their peak, batten down the hatches and ride the crest of excuses and mediocrity into the next transfer window. Repeat.

 

Its not going to change. We're not going to change. And when Spurs and Chelsea arrive to their new grounds in the coming seasons, and Billy Hogan is still arguing the toss about raising ticket prices in order to tack a few thousand more seats onto the Anfield Road end, we really will begin to look like the provincial and sentimental old fools that FSG would have us be. Thank god for Klopp.

 

FSG appointed Klopp- he confirmed, unless he is very good at deceiving us, that Coutinho forced the move.

 

The fact we havent re-invested the fee is concerning, but Klopp is definately party to that, no doubt about it.  

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