Jordan Henderson, MBE: World Club Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup & Charity Shield Winning Captain of Liverpool (and massive sellout)

[ben48]

My least favourite player. Not because of the non-penalty - everyone knows he's a bottler, but because of the way he chases after things he knows he isn't going to win because he thinks he can fool people into thinking he's leading by example. His alacrity in getting rid of the ball to people in tighter spots than him mark him out as lacking the bottle to take responsibility in general play. The number of times the back four play it to him only for him to shit out and play it straight back, putting them under pressure, should be obvious to the manager and the rest of the coaching staff. I don't want him at the club anymore - he epitomises more than anyone the state that this club is in.

This,especially the last sentence.

[RobbieOR]

The penalty thing is a complete irrelevance imo, as is the leadership thing.

 

The real crux of Henderson's failings is that he's just doesn't have the right technical and mental attributes to play in tight areas like a top midfielder should. He only comes back to receive it off the back four if he's in oceans of space and anytime there's any pressure put on him, he shits it and shuttles it back to them. There's no balance in the midfield as him and Can are pretty much identical, except that Can is younger and has a much higher celing in terms of ability. I'd rather play Joe Allen in his place, because as lightweight and limited as 'Wee Joe' his, at least he's not afraid to take the ball on and play it in tight spaces.

 

People also say he's best as a box to box man or that he's great as pressing. Problem there is he's shite as shooting and couldn't finish his dinner, and his "pressing" consists of running up to players and not tackling them. He's had long enough to prove himself here at this point, it's time to be ruthless and get rid.

 

Yeah I'd probably agree with that although to be fair to Hendo he hasn't been the same player since he broke his foot and been playing with injections. 

 

We do need a new midfield though. 

[Ted]

Thinking of the captain we've gone from to the captain we now have makes me a sad panda.

[3 Stacks]

The penalty thing is a complete irrelevance imo, as is the leadership thing.

 

The real crux of Henderson's failings is that he's just doesn't have the right technical and mental attributes to play in tight areas like a top midfielder should. He only comes back to receive it off the back four if he's in oceans of space and anytime there's any pressure put on him, he shits it and shuttles it back to them. There's no balance in the midfield as him and Can are pretty much identical, except that Can is younger and has a much higher celing in terms of ability. I'd rather play Joe Allen in his place, because as lightweight and limited as 'Wee Joe' his, at least he's not afraid to take the ball on and play it in tight spaces.

 

People also say he's best as a box to box man or that he's great as pressing. Problem there is he's shite as shooting and couldn't finish his dinner, and his "pressing" consists of running up to players and not tackling them. He's had long enough to prove himself here at this point, it's time to be ruthless and get rid.

 

Spot on. I don't give a shit if he is or isn't a good leader, but what I do care about is that he isn't technically good enough. It's almost impossible to break teams down when one of your players who touches the ball the most can't even turn on the ball or play in tight areas.

 

I also don't think you even need any of the qualities he possesses if you're a top team. A mobile #6 who can protect the back four and a technical player who is good in possession is what is needed these days and Henderson offers neither. I can only really think of Arturo Vidal who plays box-to-box at a big club but he's a supreme tackler as well.

 

All in all, he just doesn't have the qualities needed and he'll need to be sold because you can't strip him of the captaincy just like that and you can't make your captain a bench player. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

The penalty thing is a complete irrelevance imo, as is the leadership thing.

 

The real crux of Henderson's failings is that he's just doesn't have the right technical and mental attributes to play in tight areas like a top midfielder should. He only comes back to receive it off the back four if he's in oceans of space and anytime there's any pressure put on him, he shits it and shuttles it back to them. There's no balance in the midfield as him and Can are pretty much identical, except that Can is younger and has a much higher celing in terms of ability. I'd rather play Joe Allen in his place, because as lightweight and limited as 'Wee Joe' his, at least he's not afraid to take the ball on and play it in tight spaces.

 

People also say he's best as a box to box man or that he's great as pressing. Problem there is he's shite as shooting and couldn't finish his dinner, and his "pressing" consists of running up to players and not tackling them. He's had long enough to prove himself here at this point, it's time to be ruthless and get rid.

Spot on. Cash In on the English premium and let's get Goretzka.

[JermainePennant]

Last couple of pages have been spot on and it's what I was saying all last season when defending Allen, others (mainly Henderson) fuck him over by giving him the ball when he's marked so they don't have to be the one to lose the ball and they can't do anything with it when he gives it to them.

 

Henderson is shit in tight areas and that has always been the case since he's been here, Klopp had Gundogan at Dortmund so he must know we need someone who can control the midfield, Alonso or Gundogan would be perfect.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

any PL centre mid should be comfortable on the ball, especially an international player. We have some great passers. Passing the buck that is.

[TheHowieLama]

[Gnasher]

Henderson is soppy Walter from the Beano. We need Dennis, and he can Bring Gnasher for some bite.

Gnasher? I'd like to bite him up the arse, and not in a Dale Winton type of way.

[Gnasher]

Last couple of pages have been spot on and it's what I was saying all last season when defending Allen, others (mainly Henderson) fuck him over by giving him the ball when he's marked so they don't have to be the one to lose the ball and they can't do anything with it when he gives it to them.

 

Henderson is shit in tight areas and that has always been the case since he's been here, Klopp had Gundogan at Dortmund so he must know we need someone who can control the midfield, Alonso or Gundogan would be perfect.

Plus Allen can look cool as Jesus when about to get his hands nailed to the cross by Romans and still put the ball in the top left hand corner from 12 yards.

[Josef Svejk]

Yeah I'd probably agree with that although to be fair to Hendo he hasn't been the same player since he broke his foot and been playing with injections. 

 

We do need a new midfield though. 

 

I've never really rated Henderson. But he's definitely gone backwards, for whatever reason...

[jimmycase]

I've never really rated Henderson. But he's definitely gone backwards, for whatever reason...

 

This planis heel thing he has is a real bitch. it could halt a raging bull in its tracks, its that painful. Yeah, you can have pain killing injections but you cant then feel your foot which makes kicking a ball accurately extremely difficult.

[ZonkoVille77]

He is a bottler. A virginal ghost. A rich tea biscuit of a player. Afraid of pigtails, roses and fluffy clouds.

 

I used to believe he'd come good and supported him. But he's a 5/10 player, and mid to lower level team standard.

[3 Stacks]

This planis heel thing he has is a real bitch. it could halt a raging bull in its tracks, its that painful. Yeah, you can have pain killing injections but you cant then feel your foot which makes kicking a ball accurately extremely difficult.

 

If it was that much of an issue he wouldn't be playing almost every match. Also, it's not like he was any good on the ball before the injury

[stringvest]

This planis heel thing he has is a real bitch. it could halt a raging bull in its tracks, its that painful. Yeah, you can have pain killing injections but you cant then feel your foot which makes kicking a ball accurately extremely difficult.

 

it is, but I don't believe he's playing with severe pain.  Nothing compared to the severe pain he causes me witnessing his 'performances'.

[TheHowieLama]

Personally I am exhausted after watching Lallana for 15 minutes.

[aRdja]

Spot on. I don't give a shit if he is or isn't a good leader, but what I do care about is that he isn't technically good enough. It's almost impossible to break teams down when one of your players who touches the ball the most can't even turn on the ball or play in tight areas.

 

I also don't think you even need any of the qualities he possesses if you're a top team. A mobile #6 who can protect the back four and a technical player who is good in possession is what is needed these days and Henderson offers neither. I can only really think of Arturo Vidal who plays box-to-box at a big club but he's a supreme tackler as well.

 

All in all, he just doesn't have the qualities needed and he'll need to be sold because you can't strip him of the captaincy just like that and you can't make your captain a bench player. 

 

Pogba plays box to box. So does Rakitic. Also Ramsay.

[aRdja]

The penalty thing is a complete irrelevance imo, as is the leadership thing.

 

The real crux of Henderson's failings is that he's just doesn't have the right technical and mental attributes to play in tight areas like a top midfielder should. He only comes back to receive it off the back four if he's in oceans of space and anytime there's any pressure put on him, he shits it and shuttles it back to them. There's no balance in the midfield as him and Can are pretty much identical, except that Can is younger and has a much higher celing in terms of ability. I'd rather play Joe Allen in his place, because as lightweight and limited as 'Wee Joe' his, at least he's not afraid to take the ball on and play it in tight spaces.

 

People also say he's best as a box to box man or that he's great as pressing. Problem there is he's shite as shooting and couldn't finish his dinner, and his "pressing" consists of running up to players and not tackling them. He's had long enough to prove himself here at this point, it's time to be ruthless and get rid.

 

Leadership skills are irrelevant for a Liverpool captain?

[3 Stacks]

Pogba plays box to box. So does Rakitic. Also Ramsay.

 

Pogba is a #10. I'll concede Rakitic but Barca are a bit of a special case because their front three do absolutely zero tracking back and they need someone to do the donkey work. Ramsey plays on the wing when Wilshere is fit. Also, when he does play in the middle, he's the perfect example of why you don't want your midfielder to run up and down the pitch. He's incredibly ill-disciplined and leaves gaps everywhere.

[aRdja]

Pogba is a #10. I'll concede Rakitic but Barca are a bit of a special case because their front three do absolutely zero tracking back and they need someone to do the donkey work. Ramsey plays on the wing when Wilshere is fit.

Ramsey is a very good box to box midfielder who gets played wide because he's not quite as good as Cazorla.

 

Pogba isn't a number 10 at all even though he wears it. They even played Vidal in front of him when they played the diamond last season.

[3 Stacks]

Ramsey is a very good box to box midfielder who gets played wide because he's not quite as good as Cazorla.

 

Pogba isn't a number 10 at all even though he wears it. They even played Vidal in front of him when they played the diamond last season.

 

I think you are confused, Pogba is as much of a box to box midfielder as Yaya Toure. He does not track back at all. Although you are right that he isn't typically played in attack midfield. He's played there before but he usually play's deeper.

 

Ramsey isn't very good at anything let alone, as a "box to box" midfielder. He does virtually no defending. It says it all that 5 foot 2 Cazorla and Wilshere are prefered when fit.

[aRdja]

I think you are confused, Pogba is as much of a box to box midfielder as Yaya Toure. He does not track back at all.

 

Ramsey isn't very good at anything let alone, as a "box to box" midfielder. He does virtually no defending. It says it all that 5 foot 2 Cazorla and Wilshere are prefered when fit.

What does size have to do with it? Kante is small yet better than all our midfielders. So was Makelele.

 

Pogba is not a number 10. He has never been. Your statement is factually incorrect. Last season he played on the left of the diamond, not unlike Seedorf did for Milan years ago. This season Juve in the CL, and I've yet to see Pogba play as a number 10. When Vidal and Pogba played together, Vidal (apparently the only box to box player to play for a succesful team - your words) played the more attacking role. Whoscored even lists Pogba as a defensive midfielder FFS.

[3 Stacks]

What does size have to do with it? Kante is small yet better than all our midfielders. So was Makelele.

 

Pogba is not a number 10. He has never been. Your statement is factually incorrect. Last season he played on the left of the diamond, not unlike Seedorf did for Milan years ago. This season Juve in the CL, and I've yet to see Pogba play as a number 10. When Vidal and Pogba played together, Vidal (apparently the only box to box player to play for a succesful team - your words) played the more attacking role. Whoscored even lists Pogba as a defensive midfielder FFS.

 

Yes, I corrected my statement that he normally plays in attack midfield.

 

I'm not talking about positions on the pitch, i'm talking about how they play. Pogba is not a box-to-box player at all because he barely defends. like I said previously, an apt comparison to make is Yaya Toure. I wouldn't consider him a box to box midfielder, would you?

 

Same for Ramsey. He doesn't actually do much defending so he isn't a box to box player. My size comment was more about the fact that Wenger would rather play short attacking midfielders like Cazorla and Wilshere who do zero defending rather than the supposed "great box to box midfielder" Ramsey.

[aRdja]

Yes, I corrected my statement that he normally plays in attack midfield.

 

I'm not talking about positions on the pitch, i'm talking about how they play. Pogba is not a box-to-box player at all because he barely defends. like I said previously, an apt comparison to make is Yaya Toure. You wouldn't consider him a box to box midfielder, would you?

 

Same for Ramsey. He doesn't actually do any defending so he isn't a box to box player. My size comment was more about the fact that Wenger would rather play short attacking midfielders like Cazorla and Wilshere who do zero defending rather than the supposed "great box to box midfielder" Ramsey.

Yaya Toure gets played both as a CM and as an AM, he's not as dynamic as he used to, but at his best for City he definitely was.

 

Aaron Ramsey has averaged more tackles and more interceptions per game than our defensive midfielder Can, so to say he doesn't defend at all is incorrect. The reason he gets played wide when Cazorla is fit is simply because Cazorla is a better CM, not because Ramsey isn't a box to box player.

[3 Stacks]

Yaya Toure gets played both as a CM and as an AM, he's not as dynamic as he used to, but at his best for City he definitely was.

 

Aaron Ramsey has averaged more tackles and more interceptions per game than our defensive midfielder Can, so to say he doesn't defend at all is incorrect. The reason he gets played wide when Cazorla is fit is simply because Cazorla is a better CM, not because Ramsey isn't a box to box player.

 

Yes, but if Cazorla is favored in a deep midfield position wouldn't that show how unimportant box to box midfielders really are? I mean surely if you wanted midfielders to get up and down the pitch and defend both boxes, wouldn't you favor just about anyone over Cazorla?

 

That is my original point. Bar very few exceptions, box to box midfielders aren't prevalently used at top clubs anymore because it's much better to employ specialist players such as; dedicated defensive midfielders and playmakers in the middle of the park.

 

I guess you could get away with having a box to box player in a 4-3-3 if you put a defensive player and playmaker beside him, but imo it's unnecessary. Now if you have a box to box player who regularly scores tons of goals while being a good tackler, or someone like Vidal who is a supreme defender as well as a late runner into the box, than it's fine, but these players don't really exist.

 

I wont argue further about whether or not Ramsey is box to box because we won't agree. Pogba, however is definitely not box to box. Juve play Khedira and Marchisio to do the dirty work for him.Yaya has never been one either. He's either been a #6 who protected the back 4 or a strictly attacking midfielder with zero responsibility to track back.