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Jordan Henderson, MBE: World Club Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup & Charity Shield Winning Captain of Liverpool (and massive sellout)


dennis tooth
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Can't remember if I've commented on Henderson in this thread. After Stevie there was no obvious commanding leader... someone who was also guaranteed to start in our best team. Henderson got the nod as captain almost by default. It's not his fault he's lacking in comparison to what went before... they all are.

 

So leaving the captain thing aside and looking at the player, he's decent. He has been below par for a lot of this season as he has been injured, so he's been out with that, or playing through the pain. He can easily be a solid player in the team going forward, especially if his form improves to what it was, but it's all about the mix.

 

I think Can will ultimately have a higher ceiling, but he's not there yet. If Henderson was much better he could boss Can and advise him and help him grow, but they look like peers, even though Henderson is more experienced and older. So I think there is a certain awkwardness with the two of them playing, almost as if it holds both of them back.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens but I suspect we will get a new boss in the middle, and then Henderson or Can will get the nod to play, sometimes both will in a midfield three, but when it's a two I suspect Henderson might lose out.

 

Quite what that means for his Liverpool future, I don't know. We need a new captain and I'm guessing Klopp will give the armband to one of his main men, who is yet to sign. If Henderson was playing like he did two seasons ago, there would be a long line of clubs who would be interested. On the back of this season there won't be as many other options, so I think he will fight on at Liverpool, but next season he might be in and out the team a bit. If he rises to the challenge he can kick on and become almost undroppable, but that remains to be seen. At the moment there are question marks beginning to emerge.

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Henderson, like the rest of the midfield options we have is a support act at best. We could get rid of any of them and not be in any worse position.

 

I'd keep Can on the basis I think he has the raw attributes to get better with better players around him but the others will never be anything other than mid-table standard hence why we are where we are in the league.

This.
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I think Henderson is, by far, the best CM at the club. That's probably as much an indictment of a disastrous transfer policy, as it is an evaluation of his skill, but I think it's true. I think he's above average in all facets of his play, which is more than can be said for the rest.

He's better then Lucas and Can but the rest are better imo and Can has potential to be better then him.

 

Klopp needs to be ruthless and get rid of him in the summer, Gundogan will be leaving Dortmund in the summer and we should be going all out to get him.

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He's better then Lucas and Can but the rest are better imo and Can has potential to be better then him.

 

Klopp needs to be ruthless and get rid of him in the summer, Gundogan will be leaving Dortmund in the summer and we should be going all out to get him.

Gundogan had a lengthy injury so that probably means we will buy him as a partner for Sturridge,on the injury list.
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He's better then Lucas and Can but the rest are better imo and Can has potential to be better then him.

Klopp needs to be ruthless and get rid of him in the summer, Gundogan will be leaving Dortmund in the summer and we should be going all out to get him.

Hows he better than lucas?

Would he get caps for brasil? Would he fuck and Can is much younger.

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Lucas isn't the answer, he's not likely to be regular anyway.

 

That's the problem really. Henderson is a shit captain but from the list of likely candidates he is the one likely to play the most games . I hoped Lallana would step up but he's not consistent enough on the pitch. We're stuck with Henderson until the summer then we will see who hops on the gravy train. Maybe Klopp will get some square-headed beast from back home to get a shift out of the fuckers

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He's out of form because he's playing with an injury. This time last year if he hadn't signed his current contract we'd have been screaming disloyalty- I think we should show him a little loyalty and patience. He is a player who can raise his game to the level of those around him. If we can get our best players back in the team and supplement them in the summer he'll be just fine.

 

Alright, he's not the Gerrard of 2006, but Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater in midfield. It's a team game, and I think we'll be better with him than without.

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Alright, he's not the Gerrard of 2006, but Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater in midfield. It's a team game, and I think we'll be better with him than without.

He's been fit for the bin since this injury. Klopp must be horrified.

 

The rest of the point though I think there's alot of truth in that. Some very ordinary players will win the title this year, whoever it is that wins it. It's quite rare that a title winning team has a full team of stars. It's more Shankly's line about 8 piano carriers and 3 to play it.

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It's more Shankly's line about 8 piano carriers and 3 to play it.

 

And being able to spot such players. Henderson is simply poor quality, we can't carry him - he has to do some lifting. He's hurt? Who isn't? How that explains his Hollywood passing and numbing shots into Row M is past me. His loyalty was rewarded with a new contract, I'm sure the wage is staggering, and the captain's armband, with the lucrative endorsement  that accompany the captain of a big club. It's a joke - bin at first call, if there are any.

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He's out of form because he's playing with an injury. This time last year if he hadn't signed his current contract we'd have been screaming disloyalty- I think we should show him a little loyalty and patience. He is a player who can raise his game to the level of those around him. If we can get our best players back in the team and supplement them in the summer he'll be just fine.

 

Alright, he's not the Gerrard of 2006, but Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater in midfield. It's a team game, and I think we'll be better with him than without.

 

so what your saying is having a bang average midfield can get you top of the league. just shows you how shit our midfield must be. not a pair of balls between the lot of them.

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so what your saying is having a bang average midfield can get you top of the league. just shows you how shit our midfield must be. not a pair of balls between the lot of them.

No, I'm saying a team can be greater than the sum of it's parts. Not every player needs to be a superstar, as Leicester have proved so far this season- as we arguably did two years ago. Henderson was a key component in that side two years ago, and once he's back up to speed I think he will be again. I think he's a good player, most in this thread don't seem to agree. It doesn't mean he can't be and hasn't been part of good Liverpool teams.

 

Klopp simply isn't going to rip out the whole 11 and start again, so I'd say it's fairly safe to assume Henderson will be here next season.

 

I don't think he's playing well at the moment- he's probably playing a bit within himself due to the injury and not showing the "balls" as he tries to play himself back into form. He'll know better than anyone that he's not playing to his potential. But that's not to say he won't again and I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because we didn't perform away from home in Europe. Something we haven't done for probably 7 years anyway.

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He's out of form because he's playing with an injury. This time last year if he hadn't signed his current contract we'd have been screaming disloyalty- I think we should show him a little loyalty and patience. He is a player who can raise his game to the level of those around him. If we can get our best players back in the team and supplement them in the summer he'll be just fine.

 

Alright, he's not the Gerrard of 2006, but Leicester are top of the league with Danny Drinkwater in midfield. It's a team game, and I think we'll be better with him than without.

 

Leicester are top because of Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy. Just like with us 2 years ago, having forwards who scare the crap out of opposing teams make other players look good. This has been the case for Drinkwater, Albrighton, Okazaki, etc... In reality these players are serviceable but besides offering workrate/desire, they do not have much to their games.

 

Henderson is neither a playmaker who helps us in possession or a defensive midfielder who protects the back four. I don't want to say that he's useless or shit, but frankly he doesn't make us better at all. We've found out the hard way that finding top class attacking players is hard and so we need to make up for that by putting out a balanced and well-constructed midfield who can protect the back four and keep the ball/create chances. Henderson doesn't help in any of those facets because he doesn't have the positional discipline or technical ability to do so.

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Leicester are top because of Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy. Just like with us 2 years ago, having forwards who scare the crap out of opposing teams make other players look good. This has been the case for Drinkwater, Albrighton, Okazaki, etc... In reality these players are serviceable but besides offering workrate/desire, they do not have much to their games.

 

Henderson is neither a playmaker who helps us in possession or a defensive midfielder who protects the back four. I don't want to say that he's useless or shit, but frankly he doesn't make us better at all. We've found out the hard way that finding top class attacking players is hard and so we need to make up for that by putting out a balanced and well-constructed midfield who can protect the back four and keep the ball/create chances. Henderson doesn't help in any of those facets because he doesn't have the positional discipline or technical ability to do so.

I agree with that mate,Henderson is a fetcher and carrier,he could be handy played alongside a playmaker.Where do we find another Alonso or Molby,someone who can spilt a defense.If you look at some of the midfielders that we have had,Henderson is nowhere near.But the last three managers (yes Kenny as well) have gradually lowered the standard,which has left Klopp with one hell of a job.
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Leicester are top because of Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy. Just like with us 2 years ago, having forwards who scare the crap out of opposing teams make other players look good. This has been the case for Drinkwater, Albrighton, Okazaki, etc... In reality these players are serviceable but besides offering workrate/desire, they do not have much to their games.

 

Henderson is neither a playmaker who helps us in possession or a defensive midfielder who protects the back four. I don't want to say that he's useless or shit, but frankly he doesn't make us better at all. We've found out the hard way that finding top class attacking players is hard and so we need to make up for that by putting out a balanced and well-constructed midfield who can protect the back four and keep the ball/create chances. Henderson doesn't help in any of those facets because he doesn't have the positional discipline or technical ability to do so.

But who does play with a top quality defensive midfielder or playmaker anymore? The days of the 4-2-3-1, "the crushing machine", look to be over in this league- at least to my untrained eye. Winning possession high up the field, quick counters, seem to be the modern way. Those are things very much in-keeping with Henderson's skill set. I've been led to believe by people who watched them that that's how Klopp's Dortmund played at their best.

 

Don't get me wrong, if we can get some Football Manager-esque regenerated 18 year old versions of Alonso and Mascherano from somewhere in the summer then I'm all in, but the game has evolved since 2008 and I don't know if that's what Klopp wants to be honest. It doesn't particularly chime with "heavy metal" football.

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But who does play with a top quality defensive midfielder or playmaker anymore? The days of the 4-2-3-1, "the crushing machine", look to be over in this league- at least to my untrained eye. Winning possession high up the field, quick counters, seem to be the modern way. Those are things very much in-keeping with Henderson's skill set. I've been led to believe by people who watched them that that's how Klopp's Dortmund played at their best.

 

Don't get me wrong, if we can get some Football Manager-esque regenerated 18 year old versions of Alonso and Mascherano from somewhere in the summer then I'm all in, but the game has evolved since 2008 and I don't know if that's what Klopp wants to be honest. It doesn't particularly chime with "heavy metal" football.

 

The current Bayern Munich side and Pep's Barca are/were some of the best pressing sides in football and they did it with players like Xabi, Busquets, Lahm and Xavi in midfield. You don't really need super athletes who can run for days to have a good pressing system, you need intelligence and positioning. Even Klopp had the likes of Gundogan and Sahin in his midfield to play alongside a #6 like Bender or Kehl.

 

"Heavy Metal football" is more of a reference to quick counter-attacking play and you get that by putting quick, athletic and intelligent players up front. But in the midfield you certainly don't need 3 box-to-box midfielders who get up and down the pitch all game. This is what we have right now with Milner-Henderson-Can and it's shite. 

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The current Bayern Munich side and Pep's Barca are/were some of the best pressing sides in football and they did it with players like Xabi, Busquets, Lahm and Xavi in midfield. You don't really need super athletes who can run for days to have a good pressing system, you need intelligence and positioning. Even Klopp had the likes of Gundogan and Sahin in his midfield to play alongside a #6 like Bender or Kehl.

 

"Heavy Metal football" is more of a reference to quick counter-attacking play and you get that by putting quick, athletic and intelligent players up front. But in the midfield you certainly don't need 3 box-to-box midfielders who get up and down the pitch all game. This is what we have right now with Milner-Henderson-Can and it's shite.

These days, I watch Liverpool and not a lot else. I know what's going on from what I hear on Football Weekly when I'm in the gym but if you've watched a game of German or Spanish football in the last 5 years you're going to be better informed than me.

 

Can we really aspire to those teams at the moment though? With some astute business in the summer we could get back to the style of 13/14 fairly easily and go from there. We don't have the players of Bayern's quality, but nor did Dortmund on the whole did they? I've seen Sahin outside of their system and I wasn't impressed. Inside their system though, great. We can aspire to having a system that works-a great team- if that doesn't include "great" players I'm not worried.

 

Genuine question, did you think Henderson was crap before the injury?

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These days, I watch Liverpool and not a lot else. I know what's going on from what I hear on Football Weekly when I'm in the gym but if you've watched a game of German or Spanish football in the last 5 years you're going to be informed than me.

 

Can we really aspire to those teams at the moment though? With some astute business in the summer we could get back to the style of 13/14 fairly easily and go from there. We don't have the players of Bayern's quality, but nor did Dortmund on the whole did they? I've seen Sahin outside of their system and I wasn't impressed. Inside their system though, great. We can aspire to having a system that works-a great team- if that doesn't include "great" players I'm not worried.

 

Genuine question, did you think Henderson was crap before the injury?

 

To answer your question, I don't think he is a bad player. My problem with him is that he doesn't give us enough in terms of the attributes you need as a midfielder at a top club. As I said, I think he is a detriment in possession and I don't think he gives you enough defensively. He could be sold to Southampton tommorow and he would look like a fine player there, but for a big club I don't think he is more useful than say Ramires was for Chelsea or Milner was for City. That is to say, I don't see him as anything better than a backup or utility player.

 

As for your other points, all we really need is to find a midfielder who has good technique (which will be the hard part) and then a mobile player who also has good positional discipline (these are a dime-a-dozen). After that, we just need pace and 1 on 1 ability up top and on the wings to play off Coutinho and Firmino. Klopp has already said we lack depth and talent on the wings so that is what he will look for in the summer.

 

2 midfielders and a quick winger is all it will take for us to look like a more coherent side, imo.

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  • Paul changed the title to Jordan Henderson, MBE: World Club Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup & Charity Shield Winning Captain of Liverpool
  • dave u changed the title to Jordan Henderson, MBE: World Club Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup & Charity Shield Winning Captain of Liverpool (and massive sellout)

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