Labour Leadership Contest

[lifetime fan]

It could go anyway really but this broad church stuff is bollocks if one side of the party represents every interest the other side detests. It's two opposing sides, I'd support Corbyn even though I don't believe he could win an election, mostly because I think we need a party to at least try and pull politics back to the left a bit, Milliband sat on the fence far too long and was too scared to be principled incase focus groups didn't like it. Corbyn doesn't give a shit, it would be a breath of fresh air just to witness it even if Labour fail spectacularly. Burnham, Cooper, Kendell what's the point. I don't give a shit about Labour being electable in 5 years, I want at least the next few years having somebody call Cameron, Osbourne and IDS a shower of cunts. A few years where a leader of a party just answers the fucking question with a straight answer.

It's a major part of that cunt Farages appeal.

 

Basically people don't like to be treated like cunts. They know you're talking bollocks, give them a straight answer even if they don't like it and they can still respect you.

 

Now I'm not for a second saying I respect the cunt but it is refreshing to hear an honest (if still bigoted) answer to a question.

 

Lizzie posted a quote from my hero Benn the other day. Corbyn is a signpost not a weathervane. He at least has the conviction to argue his belief.

 

And if Milliband would have had that conviction I doubt he'd have been seen as so spectacularly fucking weak by the public.

 

I'll post another of my favourite Benn quotes (there are many) to sum up my point far more eloquently than I ever could...

 

Making mistakes is part of life. The only thing I would be ashamed of is if I had said things to get on which I didn't believe in. Some politicians do that.

[dennis tooth]

Despite the predictions of electoral oblivion I think it really is time to risk dying on your feet instead of living on your knees.

 

The rapidly advandancing slide to the right as politics follows opinion that follows the shite information it's given by the press only leads one way.

 

It's time to get out there and fight the culture war. It's time to point out the genuine benefits to most Tory voters, UKIP voters and non-voters of proper social democracy that runs the country for the benefit of the majority.

 

It'll be all about the sell though. Don't even bother with the word socialism anymore, ever, just keep banging on about mainstream, run of the mill social democracy and point out how extreme the Tory policy is.

 

If and when the new cuts really bite, and services go to shit, and Cameron is coasting whilst his team stab the fuck out of each other...there'll be a chance. But it'll need smarts. Lots of it.

But you said the electorate was all stupid and that cos they voted for cameron et al.

 

Myself I think Rupert and the rest of the media will win the next election again, not corbyn, like the last one with ed and the one ten years ago with brown when you then in ten years you can say it all again. Keep banging your head on the wall, goodluck.

[Hermes]

Murdoch's rag backed Labour for years.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Murdoch's rag backed New Labour for years.

Fixed it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Despite the predictions of electoral oblivion I think it really is time to risk dying on your feet instead of living on your knees.

 

The rapidly advancing slide to the right as politics follows opinion that follows the shite information it's given by the press only leads one way.

 

It's time to get out there and fight the culture war. It's time to point out the genuine benefits to most Tory voters, UKIP voters and non-voters of proper social democracy that runs the country for the benefit of the majority.

 

It'll be all about the sell though. Don't even bother with the word socialism anymore, ever, just keep banging on about mainstream, run of the mill social democracy and point out how extreme the Tory policy is.

 

If and when the new cuts really bite, and services go to shit, and Cameron is coasting whilst his team stab the fuck out of each other...there'll be a chance. But it'll need smarts. Lots of it.

Excellent post - especially the bit in bold.

[Jairzinho]

Murdoch backed Labour in order to essentially end democracy. As soon as Labour's make over was complete there was, and is, little need for him to back them again.

[Hermes]

Can the Socialists on here please decide whether democracy is good or bad or is it only good when a socialist Government is elected.

[Jairzinho]

I think democracy would be a wonderful idea.

[King Emlyn]

Murdoch's rag backed Labour for years.

Because Rupert decided to crown Blair Prime Minister, no other reason. You don't become Prime Minister unless Murdoch gives it the ok

[Anubis]

Stuart

Stuart – ‏@stu_low

 

Shook his hand and wished him all the best as he travelled on a London bus late at night with the riff raff. #Corbyn

 

 

3:56 p.m. - 29 Jul 2015

[Stu Monty]

Can the Socialists on here please decide whether democracy is good or bad or is it only good when a socialist Government is elected.

Funny to see you carry on talking down to socialists on a forum they pay for and you free ride on.

 

But then, you're cleverer than them because you've lifted yourself above such moral obligations.

[Red Phoenix]

or is it only good when a socialist Government is elected.

 

Yeah mostly, not sure if the others have enough of a clue at this stage really.

 

I found a desktop wallpaper for you too Hermes, here.

[Gnasher]

I was going to put his picture in the smarmy faces thread but Cooper is such a smug cunt he can go here.....Would you ever tire pummeling that kipper?

 

I love this quote from him....Corbyn’s brand of socialism would poison the groundwater of British politics for a generation: influencing people, particularly young people, across the political spectrum.....Erm the same young people his party have just written off and confined to the scrap heap.

 

Leon Brittain love child?

[VladimirIlyich]

Leon Brittain love child?

Only if 5 year old boys give birth through their arsehole.

[Strontium]

He looks like Alan Moore's Joker without any make up.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

He looks like Will Self's acne riddled younger brother. Ergo he's a cunt.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KMD7]

Leon Brittain love child?

 

It's Hermes

[Rotpeter]

It's Hermes

Thought, Hermes was his love grandad?

[Red Phoenix]

From Craig Murray :

 

Going Mainstream

 

For a decade, this blog has argued that democracy in the UK is dysfunctional because an entrenched party system offers no real choice. The major parties offer political programmes which are virtually indistinguishable. As I put it in lectures, if the range of possible political programmes were placed on a linear scale from 1 to 100, the Labour and Conservative parties offer you the choice between 81 and 84.

 

This exclusion of political possibility is reinforced by a corporate media structure, led by the BBC, in which ideas outside the narrow band of establishment consensus are ridiculed and denigrated. Therefore even political ideas which have the consistent support of the majority of the population, such as nationalisation of railways and other natural monopolies including utilities, simply cannot get an airing. Of all the broadcast coverage of the Iraq War, less than 3% gave time to anti-war voices, despite a majority opinion against the war.

 

This phenomenon explains why a large majority of both Conservative and Labour MPs are members of the Friends of Israel when public opinion consistently sympathises more with Palestine. It also explains the quite extraordinary media onslaught against Scottish independence.

 

I pointed out that Nicola Sturgeon’s appearance in the TV leadership debates was the first major airing of an anti-Trident argument on broadcast media in England for a decade. Actually hearing anti-austerity arguments led to a huge surge in support for the SNP in England as well as Scotland.

 

Now Jeremy Corbyn, having obtained a platform where on occasion he has been able to have his views broadcast direct without media mediation, is experiencing a massive surge of support. Ed Miliband’s lasting achievement is that he managed to put the ordinary people who marched against the Iraq War in charge of the Labour Party, not the careerist Blairite committee manipulators. The result is stunning.

 

The sheer panic gripping the London elite now is hilarious to behold. Those on the favoured side of Britain’s enormous wealth gap are terrified by the idea that there may be a genuine electoral challenge to neo-liberalism, embodied in one of the main party structures. This is especially terrifying to those who became wealthy by hijacking the representation of the working class to the neo-liberal cause. The fundamental anti-democracy of the Blairites is plainly exposed, and the panic-driven hysterical hate-fest campaign against Corbyn by the Guardian would be unbelievable, if we hadn’t just seen exactly the same campaign by the same paper against the rejection of neo-liberalism in Scotland.

 

I think I am entitled to say I told you so. Many people appear shocked to have discovered the Guardian is so anti-left wing. I have been explaining this in detail for years. It is good to feel vindicated, and even better that the people I have repeatedly shared platforms with, like Jeremy and Mhairi, are suddenly able to have the genuinely popular case they make listened to. Do I feel a little left behind, personally? Probably, but I would claim to have contributed a little to the mood, and particularly my article on the manufactured myth that the left is unelectable has been extremely widely shared – by hundreds of thousands – in the social media storm that is propelling the Corbyn campaign.

 

There has been very little comment on the impact a Corbyn victory would have on the SNP. Indeed, despite being unbendingly unionist, the Scottish media have been unable to avoid representing by omission the fact that the Labour leadership contest is taking place almost entirely in another country with another political culture. But there is no doubt that a Corbyn-led Labour Party would be more attractive in Scotland than the Tory lite version, although the paucity of Labour’s Scottish leadership would be a constant factor. Much would depend on the wider question of how the careerists who make up most Labour MPs and MSPs would react to a Corbyn victory.

 

At Westminster, I can see no reason at all why Liz Kendall, Chuka Umunna and their like cannot simply cross the floor and become Tories. Cameron is astute enough to find junior ministerial positions for them and the Tory ranks would be elated enough to swallow it. But most of the careerists will look at their new constituency members and suddenly discover left wing principles. It will be less bloody than people expect.

 

In Scotland, a Corbyn victory will bring some swing back to Labour from the SNP, but most of the old Labour demographic have now set their hearts on independence. Should Corbyn actually look set to win a UK general election in 2020, that would very possibly dent the enthusiasm for independence at the margins. It would in no sense reduce my own desire for independence, but even I would feel it less urgent. A Corbyn led UK would not cause the same feeling of moral revulsion. All of which is a good argument for having the next referendum early.

 

Should Corbyn not win the Labour leadership, the effect will be opposite. The SNP will be boosted by the death of the last hope that the Labour Party might actually mean something again, rather than be a vehicle for soulless careerists spouting management-manual jargon. If Corbyn loses, the Labour Party in Scotland really might as well wind up. The cause of independence will be furthered.

 

So what do I want to happen? I want Jeremy to win, of course, deeply and sincerely. I am an internationalist and not a Machiavellian. I want the chance of a just society and an ethical foreign policy for England and Wales. Like me, Jeremy wants to see Ireland eventually united. I have never discussed Scottish independence with him, but I am quite sure his opposition is not of the Britnat imperialist variety.

 

You can be sure that the security services are heavily targeted on the Corbyn campaign. Allow me one last “I told you so”. I came in for much ridicule when I stated, from certain knowledge, that MI5 were targeted on Scottish Nationalists (I had actually been shown the tasking). This comes into the category of obvious truths which the media and political consensus seeks to deny. The ridicule even came from some within the SNP – which, like any other organisation deemed a threat to the UK, is itself penetrated by the security services. Well, now that truth has become mainstream too. I do not anticipate any apologies.

 

Going Mainstream

 

[Dr Nowt]

Telegraph.co.uk

 

FINANCE

 

A Corbyn victory in the Labour leadership battle would be a disaster

 

A Corbynite Labour Party would herald a return to the ultra-confrontational 1980s

 

Picture: Rex Features

 

By Allister Heath

 

7:42PM BST 31 Jul 2015

 

If Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party, it would become acceptable again to call for nationalising vast swathes of industry, for massively hiking tax and for demonising business

 

Britain needs as many pro-capitalist parties as it can get. For a brief period in the mid-1990s, it had at least three: the Tories, a reformed Labour Party under Tony Blair which appeared ready to embrace markets for the first time, and the Liberal Democrats, who at the time were still pretty centrist.

 

It seemed as if the free-market counter-revolution of the 1970s and 1980s, combined with the collapse of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact, had finally killed off socialism. The choice from now on would be between a particular brand of capitalism, with varying degrees of intervention, but nobody would any longer suggest ending the economic system that has created so much wealth for humanity over the past 250 years.

 

Needless to say, it didn’t quite work out that way. The view that politicians and bureaucrats should direct, dictate, tax and control economic activity, while tragically misguided, is ingrained deep in the human psyche. The battle of ideas is never won: it turns out that the 1990s were the years of peak capitalism in the West, and Left-wing ideas have since made a return, to the great regret of commentators such as myself.

 

Recessions are always terrible for free-market ideas, especially downturns such as this one that have gone hand in hand with technological shifts that have reduced the demand and price of certain kinds of unskilled work. The idiocy that were the bail-outs, caused by an economic and financial policy that simply assumed banks would never go bust, dealt the pro-capitalist side a terrible blow.

 

Tragically, unlike in the US, British centre-Right commentators generally failed to present an alternative interpretation of the causes of the crisis which emphasised the role of low interest rates and government-created moral hazard.

 

But the Left’s gradual retaking of the Labour Party also played a big role in shifting the centre-ground of British politics back towards a more interventionist position, at least in some areas. Gordon Brown’s spending splurge and accompanying increase in red tape helped reshape the UK in a way that the current government is still grappling with, while Ed Miliband’s views on price-fixing and other matters helped drag the Tories to the Left and led to them endorsing huge increases in the minimum wage and property taxes.

 

George Osborne is best understood as small government interventionist: like the free-marketeers, he wants to reduce public spending, but like the Left, he wants an active government that makes moral choices, fixes prices and tells the private sector what to do. Time and again, he has adopted ideas that were once rejected by his party but advocated by Ed Miliband and Left-wing pressure groups. Many pundits love this triangulation, believing that it demonstrates political genius, but there can be no doubt that the mainstream, consensus view on issues such as the minimum wage is now more interventionist that at any time since the 1980s.

 

It would therefore be a disaster for Britain were Jeremy Corbyn to become leader of the Labour Party. He is an unreconstructed socialist and an early 1980s-style Labour Party would have a disastrous effect on opinion, even if Mr Corbyn himself never even got close to winning an election.

 

It would become acceptable again to call for nationalising vast swathes of industry, for massively hiking tax and for demonising business. The centre-ground would move inexorably towards a more statist position. How would the Tories react if Mr Corbyn were to call for a minimum wage of £10 or £12 by 2020, against their £9? Or if he called for the nationalisation of electricity or rail companies?

 

It would also become far harder for them to reform trade unions: instead of being opposed by a relatively sensible centre-left party, a Corbynite Labour Party would herald a return to the ultra-confrontational 1980s. Class war, extreme language and nonsensical positions would all be back. Mr Corbyn may help the Tories win the next election - but he would poison the political debate and ensure that rabid, economically illiterate ideas dominated the airwaves. A Corbyn-led Labour Party would be a disaster for the pro-capitalist cause.

 

allister.heath@telegraph.uk

 

That was a Party Political Broadcast by Jeremy Corbyn.

[Anubis]

It's all moving on from poking fun at him to getting really nasty now he has some traction. The Daily Mail are trying to revive the Islington paedophiles stuff with a headline that seemingly accuses Corbyn of ignoring social workers while admitting in the body of the article that they don't know if that was actually the case. I'm not posting it, or a link, as I'm not giving them the oxygen.

[Jairzinho]

The frantic switch between stage "then they laugh at you" and "then they fight you" is fucking hilarious to watch.

[Dr Nowt]

Aye, the plan to back him to win the leadership debate and then unleash the full force of the media and various controlling interests afterwards, setting Labour back several more years, was tempting for all the Tory cunts.

 

As they've realised he's engaging and enthusing people on a large scale however, and worse, potentially getting the ear of many young people and/or those who haven't been voting for a variety of reasons, it hasn't quite seemed as much of a chortle or worth the risk.

 

He might inspire others and show them a way to challenge the stranglehold, and they do not want that genie getting out of it's fucking bottle, do they.

[Bobby Hundreds]

It's all a bit depressing. The media has one hell of a strangle hold on public opinion and it doesn't use facts or any kind of coherent arguments. It's mock, attack or ignore anything that doesn't fit with in the media owners personal interests. 

 

I keep hearing Corbyn will be a disaster but nothing telling me just why that's the case. Iv'e read his little manifest if anything it mostly seems practical and not even remotely extreme. You have people who have been at the forefront of Labour losing two elections saying Corbyn could't win an election, er... youv'e pretty much proven you can't already twice. I think if Labour votes Corbyn it has a small chance of invigorating new supporters and stoking fire in older ones and of course it will lose many but I genuinely think if it's anyone other than Corbyn it will be the final nail for people who have still clung to the Labour name even though they don't feel any affinity towards it. Labour will lose essentially what it is, voters will swarm to the greens, ukip and the Libs and Labour will be done. If Corbyn doesn't win I think the very next day I will join another party as a member and forever consign my vote labour to keep out tory's into the bin. 

[Dr Nowt]

On phone so can't link, but there's a recent Owen Jones short interview with Caroline Lucas which I saw yesterday.

 

Sharp lady.