Roberto Firmino

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, stringvest said:

He often has games where he is ineffective with and without the ball.   

No, just no.

[stringvest]

2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

He's basically the key to our style of play. Just because he's inconsistent, like basically every player in the world besides Messi, doesn't mean he isn't indispensable. He's the second most important player in the team besides van Dijk and it's not even debatable.

I’m afraid I disagree.  

[3 Stacks]

4 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I’m afraid I disagree.  

I just don't really understand how anyone could see it any other way. Klopp has made him the centerpiece of the team, playing him up front and buying two players in Salah and Mane who complement him instead of having a "real" #9 with players feeding him. Our tactics completely change when he's not there.

[stringvest]

7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I just don't really understand how anyone could see it any other way. Klopp has made him the centerpiece of the team, playing him up front and buying two players in Salah and Mane who complement him instead of having a "real" #9 with players feeding him. Our tactics completely change when he's not there.

I do see it slightly differently, but let’s not get into another ‘Stringy hates xxx’ squealshow.  I don’t for a minute believe Klopp  bought Salah or Mane specifically to complement Firmino.  Had we still had Suárez, we’d have bought Mané and Salah has the opportunity arose.  Or Torres, for that matter. Firmino has played wide, with Salah central.  A change in tactics there.  Wijnaldum played his role, to no great effect, against Barcelona.  Less explicit change in tactics there.  For what it’s worth, I don’t believe Klopp bases his team around any one player.  I do believe there are key players for us, and on his day Firmino is one of them, as is Salah and, more pervasively, Mané.  Our key key players, as far as I’m concerned, are VdV, Alisson and Fabinho.  

 

[Guest Alex_K]

Interesting the contrast in opinions. File me in the camp that finds Mane and Salah on a whole other level to Firmino and far more indispensable to the team. If we needed a player to be on the pitch to pull us out of the fire, Bobby would be way way behind in that reckoning than Mane and Salah. Good player - but one who compliments those around him I think rather than vice versa. Not near the level of Aguero, for example.

[3 Stacks]

8 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I do see it slightly differently, but let’s not get into another ‘Stringy hates xxx’ squealshow.  I don’t for a minute believe Klopp  bought Salah or Mane specifically to complement Firmino.  Had we still had Suárez, we’d have bought Mané and Salah has the opportunity arose.  Or Torres, for that matter. Firmino has played wide, with Salah central.  A change in tactics there.  Wijnaldum played his role, to no great effect, against Barcelona.  Less explicit change in tactics there.  For what it’s worth, I don’t believe Klopp bases his team around any one player.  I do believe there are key players for us, and on his day Firmino is one of them, as is Salah and, more pervasively, Mané.  Our key key players, as far as I’m concerned, are VdV, Alisson and Fabinho.  

 

I mean there's no way Fabinho is more important than Firmino at this point. The former has only been here for 10 months and is still being rotated at times. I love Fabinho, I vouched for him years ago (not to brag, not a big deal), but that's crazy talk.

 

Mane and Salah are better, but they aren't more important. There's a difference. I think the key to a side's success revolves around having a style of play and having players who fit that style of play. Firmino is the epitome of that.

[Pureblood]

Mane and Salah enjoy the benefits of Firmino's completely selfless attitude.  He creates the space for them by dropping deep, dragging defenders all over the shop and knowing when to press.  The attacking side of our play is geared towards creating a high number of clear goalscoring chances for Mane and Salah.  Firmino is integral to this approach.

[Bjornebye]

He's the best payer in the world 

[stringvest]

15 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I mean there's no way Fabinho is more important than Firmino at this point. The former has only been here for 10 months and is still being rotated at times. I love Fabinho, I vouched for him years ago (not to brag, not a big deal), but that's crazy talk.

 

Mane and Salah are better, but they aren't more important. There's a difference. I think the key to a side's success revolves around having a style of play and having players who fit that style of play. Firmino is the epitome of that.

You seem to think I don’t understand what he brings to the team.  I do.  I just don’t believe he brings it consistently enough.  Firmino is not a fulcrum.  He’s a cog. 

[Pureblood]

In two matches without Firmino we've scored one goal from open play.  Not great, really.

[stringvest]

11 minutes ago, TK421 said:

In two matches without Firmino we've scored one goal from open play.  Not great, really.

haha!

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, stringvest said:

haha!

What's the big joke?  We were effectively reduced to a set-piece team against Newcastle as Sturridge, try as he might, just isn't capable of filling the attacking void left by Firmino's absence.  

[joe_fishfish]

6 minutes ago, TK421 said:

What's the big joke?  We were effectively reduced to a set-piece team against Newcastle as Sturridge, try as he might, just isn't capable of filling the attacking void left by Firmino's absence.  

More of an indictment of late-career Daniel Sturridge than an endorsement of Firmino.

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

More of an indictment of late-career Daniel Sturridge than an endorsement of Firmino.

A bit of both, I'd say.  

[TheHowieLama]

This thread is a disgrace.

[VladimirIlyich]

21 hours ago, stringvest said:

no,  Firmino is just too inconsistent.  He can have games - in fact stretches of games - where he cannot do anything right, cannot make a pass, can't be arsed tracking.  He has more brutal games than is appropriate for an indispensable player.  Fabinho is far more important to the team.  Firmino can be excellent, but too often he isn't.

I agree with Stringy on this. The problem is that we don't have anybody remotely similar so his time not in the team is more telling than it perhaps should be.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

He's the best payer in the world 

You do know this is the Roberto Firmino thread and not the Joe Allen thread? 

[Herp McDerp]

20 hours ago, stringvest said:

You seem to think I don’t understand what he brings to the team.  I do.  I just don’t believe he brings it consistently enough.  Firmino is not a fulcrum.  He’s a cog. 

Yeah, but you've got form when it comes to hating great Brazilian players.

[Pureblood]

10 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I agree with Stringy on this. The problem is that we don't have anybody remotely similar so his time not in the team is more telling than it perhaps should be.

He wouldn't get in the team if he went for "stretches of games where he cannot do anything right".  Simple as that.

[janmolby]

I think VVD is our best player

 

 

But I think Firmino is our most important

[TheHowieLama]

I cannot remember a single game where Firmino could not be arsed tracking.

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, TK421 said:

He wouldn't get in the team if he went for "stretches of games where he cannot do anything right".  Simple as that.

I agree with his underlying point more than the wordage.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

I cannot remember a single game where Firmino could not be arsed tracking.

 

Nothing wrong with your memory, that game hasn’t been played yet.

[stringvest]

5 hours ago, Herp McDerp said:

Yeah, but you've got form when it comes to hating great Brazilian players.

I have.  I hate them.  Hate them.  Apart from Jair.  I love Uruguayans though.  Love them all to bits, the cheeky scamps.  

[TheHowieLama]

Like Chileans me -- honest grafters. Plus what they have done with Sea Bass is impressive.