Greece

[RJ Fan club]

George and Angela's chippy on College Road in Crosby was immense. Also the old Bronte Cafe at the bottom of South Road.

The Bronte was immense. Loved it

[SasaS]

I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Greek people and their denial of any responsibility in the country's economic mess.

 

How do you know this?

 

As I make it pretty obvious from my post, my evidence is anegdotal, i.e. I know this from talking to them, reading their posts and discussing with them on forums and on social media, reading their comments and reading and watching various statements and testimonials in the media. Again, as I said, this can you believe what they have done to us attitude is what gets on my nerves most in all this. And this attitude is prevalent among the Greek people in the sources available to me. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I would be indebted to you, as their attitude is seriously testing my sympathy for them, which is something I don't like to feel.  

[Jairzinho]

If you don't mind me asking, who did you vote for (if you did vote, obviously) at the general election?

[cloggypop]

Where are you from as well? I would like to judge you on it.

[Jairzinho]

I've already made the judgement, Cloggy. Just seeking clarification. 

 

There is a monstrous whiff of Tory emanating from SasaS' posts. 

[SasaS]

Really, I come across as Tory on Greece? No, I've already been accused of belonging to extreme center, in Tariq Ali's terminology, would that mean Tory in the UK? I almost always vote social democrat, I began as a Marxist, but than I grew up. I'd say I still go to Marxist writers for criticism, but don't find any viable  vision in it any more. I was always emotionally leaning to the left, but as I grow older I seem to have more time for fiscal conservatism, but thankfully, still no sign of any sympathy for social conservatism.

 

Why, what are your political leanings?

[Jairzinho]

Really, I come across as Tory on Greece? No, I've already been accused of belonging to extreme center, in Tariq Ali's terminology, would that mean Tory in the UK? I almost always vote social democrat, I began as a Marxist, but than I grew up. I'd say I still go to Marxist writers for criticism, but don't find any viable  vision in it any more. I was always emotionally leaning to the left, but as I grow older I seem to have more time for fiscal conservatism, but thankfully, still no sign of any sympathy for social conservatism.

 

Why, what are your political leanings?

 

Yeah, the Tories are the extreme center. Slightly to the right of it in comparison to Labour, admittedly, but along with the Lib Dems as well they're all part of it. They don't offer change, they're happy to preserve the status quo.

 

I'm not convinced it's possible to have conservative views on the economy but completely different views on social policy. Or rather, of course you can have those views, but it doesn't translate to reality. It is essentially being a Lib Dem. The shape of the economy dictates everything else. Lib Dems can pretend to give a fuck about what happens to humans, in fact some of them may genuinely care, but as long as they go along with Tory economics the results will continue to produce, well, the most unequal society in Europe.

 

I would make do with a Scandi style social democracy. A lot of people in the UK seem to see the sort of ideas they have as radical so it would be completely unrealistic to expect anything to the left of that. I agree with many aspects of anarchism, but it would require such a seismic consciousness shift of a population that contains millions of people that are little more than zombies that it's barely worth contemplating. Although, perhaps things will get so shit that eventually we'll look to radical change. It is, after all, often the case.

 

Spent the morning talking to someone in Denmark about politics, economics, etc. They've got it about as close to "right" (as in correct!) as probably possible within the constraints of global economics. For example, it wouldn't be particularly easy to run a socialist or anarchist society whilst America's (and others) banking/war elite exists. So, yeah, I'd take a decent Social Democracy.

[SasaS]

So, the whiff emanating from my posts would be more of a wishy-washy Lib Dem than a Tory?

It looks like Tsipras is ready to concede defeat, according to FT. But now Merkel wants a referendum.

 

[Jairzinho]

So, the whiff emanating from my posts would be more of a wishy-washy Lib Dem than a Tory?

 

It looks like Tsipras is ready to concede defeat, according to FT. But now Merkel wants a referendum.

 

 

 

I personally don't find much difference between where Clegg took the Lib Dems, and therefore where it currently is to a large extent, to be that far from the Tories. There was a bit more difference under the likes of Kennedy, but even then he didn't want the level of change required to make a fundamental difference to the shape of society.The acceptable part of the political spectrum has been narrowed so much by the media that the two parties are painted as being very different, in order to give the pretence of choice, but they just aren't. Same applies to the mainstream media, for example, Polly Toynbee. She's portrayed as some mad radical lefty when really you couldn't possibly find a more pro establishment stooge.

 

I hope for Greece's sake they have the referendum and the people of Greece decide to allow the government they voted for a few months ago to attempt to build a fairer society. It certainly won't be easy, but voting yes, and signing your own death warrant, as the Troika have even admitted - http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/30/greek-debt-troika-analysis-says-significant-concessions-still-needed - seems like a worse option.

[Section_31]

I must say, I'm deffo getting better at this. 

 

 

 

I really need another job. 

[dennis tooth]

As I make it pretty obvious from my post, my evidence is anegdotal, i.e. I know this from talking to them, reading their posts and discussing with them on forums and on social media, reading their comments and reading and watching various statements and testimonials in the media. Again, as I said, this can you believe what they have done to us attitude is what gets on my nerves most in all this. And this attitude is prevalent among the Greek people in the sources available to me. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I would be indebted to you, as their attitude is seriously testing my sympathy for them, which is something I don't like to feel.

 

So if we hadnt cheated and bailed out our banks would you say the same of us and lack the same sympathies?

 

I fucking hate marxists. Wanna buy a house?

[dennis tooth]

Yeah, the Tories are the extreme center. Slightly to the right of it in comparison to Labour, admittedly, but along with the Lib Dems as well they're all part of it. They don't offer change, they're happy to preserve the status quo.

 

I'm not convinced it's possible to have conservative views on the economy but completely different views on social policy. Or rather, of course you can have those views, but it doesn't translate to reality. It is essentially being a Lib Dem. The shape of the economy dictates everything else. Lib Dems can pretend to give a fuck about what happens to humans, in fact some of them may genuinely care, but as long as they go along with Tory economics the results will continue to produce, well, the most unequal society in Europe.

 

I would make do with a Scandi style social democracy. A lot of people in the UK seem to see the sort of ideas they have as radical so it would be completely unrealistic to expect anything to the left of that. I agree with many aspects of anarchism, but it would require such a seismic consciousness shift of a population that contains millions of people that are little more than zombies that it's barely worth contemplating. Although, perhaps things will get so shit that eventually we'll look to radical change. It is, after all, often the case.

 

Spent the morning talking to someone in Denmark about politics, economics, etc. They've got it about as close to "right" (as in correct!) as probably possible within the constraints of global economics. For example, it wouldn't be particularly easy to run a socialist or anarchist society whilst America's (and others) banking/war elite exists. So, yeah, I'd take a decent Social Democracy.

Whats a democracy?

[dennis tooth]

Doesn't address my point in any way whatsoever.By any metric, Spain and Portugal are doing better following their adoption of fiscal sanity. You can obfuscate, but them's the facts.

What?

Even the spanish 49 per cent unemployment metric?

The portugese 31 percent?

 

Portugals goverment debt has risen one per cent in the last year.

 

Spains?

The country’s public debt will rise to 100 percent of gross domestic product from 98 percent at the end of this year, according to the spending bill presented today by Budget Minister Cristobal Montoro in Madrid. The government’s net borrowing will be 47 billion euros.

 

What metric you on fucking smackhed?

[Jairzinho]

Not seen this before, very good interview. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNItYoJhgmk

[Jairzinho]

Whats a democracy?

 

Dennis, I'm really not interested in your tedious desire to talk exclusively in absolutes. 

[dennis tooth]

Dennis, I'm really not interested in your tedious desire to talk exclusively in absolutes.

 

What this even means does this?

 

Straight question you were asked and refused to engage.

[Jairzinho]

What this even means does this?

 

Straight question you were asked and refused to engage.

 

I refused to engage because we've had the conversation before. You believe there can only be democracy and non democracy, whilst I believe some countries have more democratic systems than others.

[dennis tooth]

I refused to engage because we've had the conversation before. You believe there can only be democracy and non democracy, whilst I believe some countries have more democratic systems than others.

This isnt the same conversation, ive just asked if you can attempt to answer, since you are using the word a lot what you mean by that word?

[Jairzinho]

This isnt the same conversation, ive just asked if you can attempt to answer, since you are using the word a lot what you mean by that word?

 

The widely accepted meaning, Dennis. As you're well aware. What are you getting at? As I can't be fucked with this boring game.

[Strontium]

Really, I come across as Tory on Greece? No, I've already been accused of belonging to extreme center, in Tariq Ali's terminology, would that mean Tory in the UK? I almost always vote social democrat, I began as a Marxist, but than I grew up. I'd say I still go to Marxist writers for criticism, but don't find any viable  vision in it any more. I was always emotionally leaning to the left, but as I grow older I seem to have more time for fiscal conservatism, but thankfully, still no sign of any sympathy for social conservatism.

 

Why, what are your political leanings?

 

I get accused of being a conservative on here.

 

Meanwhile, real (American) conservatives are on record as calling me a Marxist.

 

If you can piss off extremists of left and right, that's when you know that you are politically in the right place.

[Bobby Hundreds]

American conservatives are the best. Donald Trump is the best at the military, the best.

[Stu Monty]

I get accused of being a conservative on here.

 

Meanwhile, real (American) conservatives are on record as calling me a Marxist.

 

If you can piss off extremists of left and right, that's when you know that you are politically in the right place.

 

Who are the extremists on here then?

 

All that post actually signifies is that people often call other people daft things that they aren't. You know, like when you call people who want social democracy Marxists, or GFers extremists.

[dennis tooth]

The widely accepted meaning, Dennis. As you're well aware. What are you getting at? As I can't be fucked with this boring game.

Touched a nerve here you dont know your own premise? Whats the widely accepted meaning, I dont know, you dont know, MPs talk about it a lot but they have a democracy between themselves whereAs we do not and a democracy betwenn themself is not a democracy anymore than kim jong ils democracy is a democracy the very fact you cant answer reveals the problem, weve been using a word no one understands except those who have a monopoly on it.

[Anubis]

Who are the extremists on here then?

 

Jihadharzino.

Section 31 - a subversive and extreme wing of Star Fleet.

[dennis tooth]

I get accused of being a conservative on here.Meanwhile, real (American) conservatives are on record as calling me a Marxist.If you can piss off extremists of left and right, that's when you know that you are politically in the right place.

Yeah thats a good theory, if i piss off people who think the earth is flat And people who think its round Im in the right place.

 

You believe in nothing because you understand nothing, thats your problem, the earth is round. Learn moral gravity and then you will understand that the earth is not flat.