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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

264 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      211
    • No
      53


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Just now, Strontium Dog said:

Truth has objective value, and not telling the truth because the truth will be hard for some people to hear is pure cowardice.

Thing is though, the truth has been told, people just refuse to accept it. On both sides.

 

And a second referendum will never take place while May and The Tories are in power. She is the one who has to sign it off, anyone else wanting to do so must have a majority. And that's the truth.

 

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1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Thing is though, the truth has been told, people just refuse to accept it. On both sides.

 

And a second referendum will never take place while May and The Tories are in power. She is the one who has to sign it off, anyone else wanting to do so must have a majority. And that's the truth.

 

She may be forced too if one of these "indicative votes" ,that will likely be floated after her bill goes down and Labour fail to get a GE, shows a Commons majority in favour of a 2nd vote

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17 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

Truth has objective value, and not telling the truth because the truth will be hard for some people to hear is pure cowardice.

If you are talking about that Timmy bloke youse had leading you and his beliefs on the gays I have to agree. 

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13 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

Truth has objective value, and not telling the truth because the truth will be hard for some people to hear is pure cowardice.

And there speaks the party who have about 0.000000000000000002% of the electorate and are therefore utterly powerless to do a thing about Brexit. 

 

It's politics.  You've got to work with the reality you exist in, not the one you wish existed.

 

 

 

(PS - You can either side with Chidi Anagonye or Nick Clegg: you can't have both.)

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34 minutes ago, magicrat said:

She may be forced too if one of these "indicative votes" ,that will likely be floated after her bill goes down and Labour fail to get a GE, shows a Commons majority in favour of a 2nd vote

I personally think that is wishful thinking. She will be under more pressure from her party to go through with it than parliament. And I also don't think the result would be accepted by Leave if it went the way of Remain. Just like Remain have (rightly or wrongly) not accepted the first result.

 

For me, having a second referendum makes a mockery of the whole system, more than the lies from the Leave campaign. The whole process could on, and on, and on and on without ever being resolved properly. And that is not helpful at all. 

 

Of course I am only offering my own take on it. I could be well off the mark, but it will take some serious convincing to shift from that belief.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

How about a second referendum where people actually living in the EU already are allowed a vote? Advisory referendums can suck my left one. 

EU citizens in the UK should also have been allowed to vote in 2016. It's mad to think you can have a vote, but exclude the very people with most at stake.

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1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I personally think that is wishful thinking. She will be under more pressure from her party to go through with it than parliament. And I also don't think the result would be accepted by Leave if it went the way of Remain. Just like Remain have (rightly or wrongly) not accepted the first result.

 

For me, having a second referendum makes a mockery of the whole system, more than the lies from the Leave campaign. The whole process could on, and on, and on and on without ever being resolved properly. And that is not helpful at all. 

 

Of course I am only offering my own take on it. I could be well off the mark, but it will take some serious convincing to shift from that belief.

 

 

 

Jesus, seriously? Even though we now know those magic beans the Leavers voted for have turned out to actually be a massive shit sandwich?

 

 

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49 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

EU citizens in the UK should also have been allowed to vote in 2016. It's mad to think you can have a vote, but exclude the very people with most at stake.

Is that not a bit like asking Tennant of a property who are happy living there if they want to vote about being allowed to carry on living there? Surely it should be up to the landlord!

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Literally just turned the telly on there and Owen Jones said something about an MP being murdered by the far right. 

 

Andrew Neil countered this with pointing out that it was only one member of the far right not all of them. 

 

Fucking hell. State of political discourse on the BBC these days. 

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

EU citizens in the UK should also have been allowed to vote in 2016. It's mad to think you can have a vote, but exclude the very people with most at stake.

Indeed 

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4 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Ha ha! Ended up with Neil cutting it short and accusing Jones of lies and smears against him. Needs a libel case really. 

Good, wasn't it? Neil then having to deliver a funny link whilst sweating, red faced and seething was the perfect ending.

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It was mad. Neil's and Portillo's unwillingness to call out the right wing press was, while not unsurprising, a bit mad. 

 

Owen Jones made a brief mention of Neil's links to the Spectator and he lost it, wouldn't let Owen Jones speak and threatened to kick him off the show.

 

Then he went on about untrue smears. You couldn't make it up.

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4 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Good, wasn't it? Neil then having to deliver a funny link whilst sweating, red faced and seething was the perfect ending.

Every show should end with Bobby Gillespie staring at Andrew Neil with bored disgust. 

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2 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I personally think that is wishful thinking. She will be under more pressure from her party to go through with it than parliament. And I also don't think the result would be accepted by Leave if it went the way of Remain. Just like Remain have (rightly or wrongly) not accepted the first result.

 

For me, having a second referendum makes a mockery of the whole system, more than the lies from the Leave campaign. The whole process could on, and on, and on and on without ever being resolved properly. And that is not helpful at all. 

 

Of course I am only offering my own take on it. I could be well off the mark, but it will take some serious convincing to shift from that belief.

 

 

She will not be able to ignore a majority in the House for another vote in practice especially when she leads a minority government. Whether a second vote makes a mockery of the system or not it's the only realistic way out of the impasse. I would argue the mockery was having a referendum in the first place just to solve Cameron's worries over UKIP.  Add to that so many people that should have had the vote didn't and the corrupt financing plus Russian interference casts doubt over the whole validity over the outcome.

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38 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Every show should end with Bobby Gillespie staring at Andrew Neil with bored disgust. 

I find Neil's monologues strangely compelling viewing though. He slurs his way through them like a drunk trying to pass a sobriety test whilst keeping ill-fitting dentures in.

 

There's always this little moment about halfway through, a look in his eyes that lets you know he has no clue what the string of words on the autocue mean.

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2 hours ago, magicrat said:

She will not be able to ignore a majority in the House for another vote in practice especially when she leads a minority government. 

You really think so? This is a government which has shown complete contempt for parliament, if May had her way parliament would have had minimal consultative involvement. Bear in mind that if she wins the vote it's the end of her government thanks to the DUP and at the moment she doesn't really have to do anything further and we crash out in 11 weeks time. It's a non binding 'meaningful' vote. She can also run the clock down by repeatedly bringing her vote back. She now has to report back in 3 parliamentary days, that could include 'no deal', another vote or another round of diplomacy to run down the clock?

 

Her reputation is that she can be astonishingly stubborn, she decides on a policy position and sticks with it.

 

If I was betting on this, I think we'll crash out by accident now.

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2 hours ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

I find Neil's monologues strangely compelling viewing though.

Isn't that a trait of many ultra right wing operators? 

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3 hours ago, clangers said:

Isn't that a trait of many ultra right wing operators? 

You think Neil is ultra-right wing? 

 

For the the record I think he’s a bit of a cunt but he’s not ‘ultra right wing’. 

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8 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

EU citizens in the UK should also have been allowed to vote in 2016. It's mad to think you can have a vote, but exclude the very people with most at stake.

As an Australian passport holder living in the UK I was asked to vote too. 

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