Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[SasaS]

14 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I was just about to post that it would be interesting to see the picture if some sort of transferable vote system were applied.

 

(And, yes, for consistency I'll say that a 52-48 lead for Remain is a bug's dick. )

 

I didn't get why they gave people three preferences, and by constituency, even before interviewing 21.000 people you knew that Remainers would choose remain, and Brexiters would be split over deal-no deal choice, which would give all constituencies to Remain. Kind of pointless. What is surprising is, if I read it correctly, that 15% of Remainers chose May's deal over no Brexit.

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/06/no-deal-brexit-could-cause-chaos-across-kent-warns-council

 

Kent voted 59:41 to leave. Now, it should have been clear that after having issues previously with strikes on the other side of the channel, any changes to the customs checks would have been disruptive but yet they still voted to do this to themselves.

 

Faisal Islam seems to have a source suggesting that there could be lorry parks as far away from Dover as in Essex and Sussex with some reports of talks about stopping people driving into Kent.

[Jairzinho]

 

[magicrat]

Interesting article about A50 ruling in Monday.

This is inching towards a second vote or no Brexit. 

 

With exquisite timing the European Court of Justice will give its verdict in the article 50 case at 8am on Monday morning just a day before the big vote in House of Commons on the deal that would seal Britain’s exit from the EU. The court will rule whether or not the UK can revoke its decision in March 2017 to give notice of its plan to leave.

We’ve already had a hint of the way this might go with the assertion on Tuesday from the Advocate General that article 50 could be cancelled.

In an excellent post this morning the QC who has been leading the fight, Jolyon Maugham, sets out the main reasons an ECJ ruling could change the whole Brexit debate because until the assumption has been that Article 50 with its rigid timetable ending on March 29th cannot be revoked. He notes:

“..First, importantly, as the parliamentary chaos grows after Theresa May loses her ‘meaningful vote’, MPs are going to begin the search for a safe haven. They need a good enough, least-worst option which they know is open to them. The judgment means they will have it: we can remain…

..Second, it neuters arguments that we can’t remain without giving up our rebate, going into Shengen, adopting the euro and so on…

..Third, it moves us in the direction of a softer Brexit. MPs who wanted to remain might have supported the deal to avoid no-deal but can now chase what they really want.

Fourth, it squeezes Labour into a corner. Jeremy Corbyn had hitherto been able to keep a lid on pro-Remain pressure in his party by arguing that it was not legally possible. But that ground has fallen away from under his feet.

Fifth, it places the decision directly into the hands of MPs. Brexit – for some – was about a perception that our national sovereignty was diminished by EEU membership..”

An indication of the case’s importance was the huge effort that the Government made to stop it progressing. For so much of minsters’ argument has been based on the fact that this cannot be revoked. There was no alternative. Well there might be.

Roll on 8am on Monday morning.

Mike Smithson

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

How's the EU going down in Paris lately? 

[Captain Howdy]

On 12/6/2018 at 11:49 PM, AngryofTuebrook said:

Rod Liddle in The Scum is arguing against a second referendum, pushing the bizarre line that asking people what they want is a betrayal of democracy.  And he's not just arguing: he's exhorting violence.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/sun-criticised-jo-cox-murder-brexit-rod-liddle/?fbclid=IwAR0maGrXsxrZpqyqTgLNv4ZEnFxQwNnsJA6HR0RVLIQ50OMYLcpoGNTziU0

 

 

It’s not that simple, imo he does have a point, if there were a second referendum and there was say a narrow victory for remain then you would have millions of extremely angry disillusioned citizens and confidence in democracy would be devastated. I can’t stand Liddle but he has a point here.

[Sugar Ape]

Some of these commentators need locking up for their own good.

 

 

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

It’s not that simple, imo he does have a point, if there were a second referendum and there was say a narrow victory for remain then you would have millions of extremely angry disillusioned citizens and confidence in democracy would be devastated. I can’t stand Liddle but he has a point here.

A majority of under 50s voted to remain. If politicians are shitting themselves at the prospect of riots by pensioners then we need new politicians.

 

There were more Momentum lead people in London today than the Brexit Betrayed lot. 5 to 1 according to some reports. Save a few, most will go back to chuntering over a copy of The S*n and bromide laced breakfasts.

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

How's the EU going down in Paris lately? 

It's domestic politics dickhead. But I suppose you've bought into Tommy Robinson's schtick that it's fascism. Plonker.

[Captain Howdy]

7 minutes ago, skend04 said:

A majority of under 50s voted to remain. If politicians are shitting themselves at the prospect of riots by pensioners then we need new politicians.

I’m sure politicians are not remotely arsed about riots, by pensioners or anybody else

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

How's the EU going down in Paris lately? 

Donald Trump tried to misrepresent the anti-Macron demonstrations, too. He, too, is a shitwit who has a complicated relationship with reality. That's why people laugh at him.

 

Your levels of stupidity and dishonesty are Trumpesque.

[Gnasher]

47 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Donald Trump tried to misrepresent the anti-Macron demonstrations, too. He, too, is a shitwit who has a complicated relationship with reality. That's why people laugh at him.

 

Your levels of stupidity and dishonesty are Trumpesque.

Amongst the price of fuel and cost of living Isn't leaving the EU and withdrawal from NATO on the protesters list of sixty?

[magicrat]

2 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

It’s not that simple, imo he does have a point, if there were a second referendum and there was say a narrow victory for remain then you would have millions of extremely angry disillusioned citizens and confidence in democracy would be devastated. I can’t stand Liddle but he has a point here.

Liddle is a cunt.

It wont be a re-run of the last referendum but will have the Maybot deal as an option.

Crashing out or cancelling Brexit will cause more grief. Yes if Remain wins then there will be plenty of grumpy old Yorkshiremen egged on by Mogg climbing out of their boxes but its the least worst option.

[Captain Turdseye]

Debate on C4 now. Rees-Mogg and Caroline Lucas taking part. 

[magicrat]

32 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Debate on C4 now. Rees-Mogg and Caroline Lucas taking part. 

 

Mogg talking about Lucas being arrogant.  The massive hypocritical cunt. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Amongst the price of fuel and cost of living Isn't leaving the EU and withdrawal from NATO on the protesters list of sixty?

According to the statement of demands issued by the organisers, no: neither the EU nor NATO are mentioned. 

https://www.scribd.com/document/394450377/Les-revendications-des-gilets-jaunes#from_embed?campaign=SkimbitLtd&ad_group=38395X1020983Xdbede08f03b02edaaa87d34657f5d9ad&keyword=660149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

 

[Gnasher]

Some sense on tackling the mass inequality within the EU

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Some sense on tackling the mass inequality within the EU

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

Guess which country's government has always been the staunchest opponent of fair taxes in Europe.  Go on, guess.

 

Once that country leaves, the EU can get on with shutting down tax havens, implementing a Financial Transactions Tax, etc.

[Jose Jones]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Some sense on tackling the mass inequality within the EU

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

I'm not sure your fellow Brexit voters would take too kindly to the idea of contributing to an 800 billion Euro fund managed by the EU!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

I'm not sure your fellow Brexit voters would take too kindly to the idea of contributing to an 800 billion Euro fund managed by the EU!

In fairness to Gnash, it seems he has finally come around to the idea that the EU is capable of reform and can be steered away from the worst of its neoliberal  (and often racist) excesses.

[Scott_M]

Genuinely a bit unsettling:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Tjp5OmoDYQM

[Anubis]

Bit harsh that. On Gollum.

[skend04]

Confirmed by the ECJ that Art.50 can be revoked unilaterally by the UK. Obviously will have to go through the correct process either through a parliamentary vote or referendum or election. 

[ZonkoVille77]

In Article 50 we trust.

[Captain Howdy]

1 hour ago, skend04 said:

Confirmed by the ECJ that Art.50 can be revoked unilaterally by the UK. Obviously will have to go through the correct process either through a parliamentary vote or referendum or election. 

They really don’t want us to leave, they stand to lose a fair amount as well, not as much as us granted but it’s a huge blow to see us walk away I’m sure. Pity we had May batting for us, low hanging fruit for Barnier.