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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

310 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      252
    • No
      58


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23 minutes ago, Don Balon said:

This is the death of the Conservative Party right here and now. 

 

We fucking wish!

 

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 May's biggest advantage is still that nobody else wants to be in her position and Labour are well aware that a significantly better deal with the EU is not possible.

If Labour ride this out long enough, it could be win-win for them. The EU situation will be resolved one way or another and the public will want rid of the Tories.

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1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

We fucking wish!

 

If Labour ride this out long enough, it could be win-win for them. The EU situation will be resolved one way or another and the public will want rid of the Tories.

 

I don't think they would want a general election before the Brexit is resolved, nobody except a couple of hard liners like Jacob would want to be in May's shoes. She is in so much shit that it becomes her greatest strength in terms of staying power.

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Surely there's very little need for the EU to tweak anything now. They'll now say this the best it gets as a third country and if you exit and the shit hits the fan it's all your fault knowing you didn't have to go through with it. End of a May's deal and a strike against No Deal.

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There is no need, but you can always make concessions that don't cost you much to help the other side. May's deal is the best deal for the EU, short of avoiding Brexit, which I don't think can happen any more, without a major shift in general public's opinion, which has not happened. 

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Now that it seems that A50 can be revoked without getting permission from the EU27, May's threat of 'her deal or no deal' is shot to pieces. She's fucked and hopefully the Tory party with her.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I thought the Lib Dems were the anti-Brexit party, but two of them have said that they'll vote with May.

 

All kinds of things are still possible - from a Johnson Government crashing us out with no deal, to a Corbyn Government rescinding A50,. In line with the result of a second referendum.

 

 I'm not even sure anyone can say what is most likely to happen.

Sure, lots of things are possible (including delaying the meaningful vote till after the Xmas break), but I don't think a GE will happen. The tories won't risk a corbyn government no matter who their leader is and they know there's a chance of one. This whole brexit debacle has been all about tory infighting since day one and I don't see that changing or them being willing to give up being in government. 

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19 minutes ago, Jenson said:

Now that it seems that A50 can be revoked without getting permission from the EU27, May's threat of 'her deal or no deal' is shot to pieces. She's fucked and hopefully the Tory party with her.

Why is her deal or no deal shot to pieces? She claims (and rightly unfortunately) her mandate is to leave the EU. Revoking A50 is not an option available to her. 

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it's easy to have in-fighting tear a party apart, like with the Tories, when you have no common ethos that unites people in that party, apart from personal ambition.  They are an embodiment of the tenets of capitalism, every man for himself, get rich quick. 

 

However divided that Labour become, they can still come back to centre by way of they all have the fundamentals of socialism, and wanting to help all corners of society.  

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1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

Why is her deal or no deal shot to pieces? She claims (and rightly unfortunately) her mandate is to leave the EU. Revoking A50 is not an option available to her. 

 

Her mandate is to serve the people.  

The referendum is just one aspect of people's interraction with her. 

Or are we expecting the PM to drop everything and focus on one source of information to dictate what she does from now on?

 

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3 minutes ago, Don Balon said:

it's easy to have in-fighting tear a party apart, like with the Tories, when you have no common ethos that unites people in that party, apart from personal ambition.  They are an embodiment of the tenets of capitalism, every man for himself, get rich quick. 

 

However divided that Labour become, they can still come back to centre by way of they all have the fundamentals of socialism, and wanting to help all corners of society.  

Where have you been for the last 15 years? The ideology of the Labour Party members has been split significantly since New Labour, and despite the grass roots movement of Momentum and the success of Jeremy Corbyn, they still remain quite divided.  The Tories all agree on screwing the poor!

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14 minutes ago, Don Balon said:

 

Her mandate is to serve the people.  

The referendum is just one aspect of people's interraction with her. 

Or are we expecting the PM to drop everything and focus on one source of information to dictate what she does from now on?

 

Where Europe is concerned, yes, she has one mandate even if that completely fucks our economy. 

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44 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Why is her deal or no deal shot to pieces? She claims (and rightly unfortunately) her mandate is to leave the EU. Revoking A50 is not an option available to her. 

Revoking A50 might not be an option for her, as she’s backed herself into a corner, but it is now an option for Remain Tory MPs who may have been scared enough by her ‘deal or no deal’ threat to vote for the withdrawal agreement.

Whatever little chance that had to be voted through has now gone completely. The vote (imo) will now be a complete humiliation for her.

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Can’t we just forget this whole mess and get on with having a decent country and economy? Ta.

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35 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Where Europe is concerned, yes, she has one mandate even if that completely fucks our economy. 

 

But it's patently a bigger issue than whether or not we are EU Members on paper.  

 

The implications around security, health, travel etc etc etc, you can't make a decision that will change government policies drastically, as such there needs to be more of a reason to do so than '52% of people said they wanted to leave the EU'.

 

It's like having a referendum on whether or not to go into war.  I would expect a government to take the result of a referendum into account, but not base the whole decision on that. It's catastrophic logic. 

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1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Can’t we just forget this whole mess and get on with having a decent country and economy? Ta.

 

This should be the Labour or Lib Dem campaign slogan. 

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50 minutes ago, Jenson said:

Revoking A50 might not be an option for her, as she’s backed herself into a corner, but it is now an option for Remain Tory MPs who may have been scared enough by her ‘deal or no deal’ threat to vote for the withdrawal agreement.

Whatever little chance that had to be voted through has now gone completely. The vote (imo) will now be a complete humiliation for her.

She was never winning that vote, not right now anyway. I still there there's every chance she will postpone it till after Xmas and let the fear of a Labour government take a grip of her party. 

41 minutes ago, Don Balon said:

 

But it's patently a bigger issue than whether or not we are EU Members on paper.  

 

The implications around security, health, travel etc etc etc, you can't make a decision that will change government policies drastically, as such there needs to be more of a reason to do so than '52% of people said they wanted to leave the EU'.

 

It's like having a referendum on whether or not to go into war.  I would expect a government to take the result of a referendum into account, but not base the whole decision on that. It's catastrophic logic. 

Of course it's a bigger issue, but that's not how she is interpreting it. She's got her red lines and to hell with what that means for the country. It's been like that for 2 years, why would it change now? 

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2 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Apparently the Lib Dem’s have turned this into an anti-Labour issue.

 

 

 

God forbid that the leader of the Labour Party should respect the will of his own party, eh.

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Good to see Parliament taking back control- government found in contempt and forced to publish its Brexit legal advice, losing the motion by 311-293.

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Just now, Skidfingers McGonical said:

So no comment on the actual points made in that thread then? 

 

"Boohoo, the evil Lib Dems are pointing out that Corbyn is ignoring the will of his party conference"

 

Not sure what you want me to say about it.

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1 minute ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

"Boohoo, the evil Lib Dems are pointing out that Corbyn is ignoring the will of his party conference"

 

Not sure what you want me to say about it.

Hasnt he said the mat he would back a second referendum?

 

Im asking you as you seem to know more and be more arsed about Labour than your own parties supposed attempts to back the Tories without thinking things through. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Don Balon said:

 

Her mandate is to serve the people.  

The referendum is just one aspect of people's interraction with her. 

Or are we expecting the PM to drop everything and focus on one source of information to dictate what she does from now on?

 

 

You're not seriously suggesting she put the interests of the country at large above her job and the Conservative party 

 

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I still think she's toast after the vote next week if the vote actually goes ahead? She'll have to be dragged out of their kicking and screaming but the Tories are unsurprisingly pretty ruthless. She's onto a nice little earner in no 10 and she get's to blow Phil on the staircase under a painting of Thatcher so she's not going to go easily.

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