Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Anny Road said:

Do even remainers not feel a pang in the pit of their stomach that this country cannot exist and prosper without French, German, Italian, Greek etc cooperation.

I've no problem with these places and most of them have ruled here at some point but I do not want to be dictated to by them.

 

I've said this before but noone ever replied.  I could get together with my 10 neighbours and negotiate a much better price for my gas. We would need to elect a chairman and i would pay in and he would pay the bills. We would have meetings and whatever. Fuck that I'll pay my own bills thanks.

Likewise with the EU. I'll pay my own way.

You would rather individually pay a higher price than collectively pay a lower price?

 

You do realise how stupid that is, don't you?

 

As for the "pang" of living in a world in which people, goods and services can move freely across borders, I ain't feeling it. Every country, to some degree or other, depends on others. (Some dictatorships, like North Korea, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Franco's Spain, have tried to close the doors and be utterly self-reliant. It has never ended well.) The UK will still need to trade with the EU post-Brexit, but we will have no say in determining the regulations and standards which govern that trade: that's the price of your ill-defined opposition to "a political union".

[Red Phoenix]

Just looked at the last page of this thread to see what was going on and saw alien abduction, Hillary, milking donkeys and swastikas. Cameron should've known stuff like this would happen when he called the referendum.

[Denny Crane]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Just looked at the last page of this thread to see what was going on and saw alien abduction, Hillary, milking donkeys and swastikas. Cameron should've known stuff like this would happen when he called the referendum.

 

Cameron allegedly fucks pigs, milking donkeys and swastikas is probably an erotic spasm for him.

[Anubis]

Daily Mail now in full-on effort to save May. Beans on toast and whiskey. Weekly washing. The full sympathy hit.

[skend04]

3 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Daily Mail now in full-on effort to save May. Beans on toast and whiskey. Weekly washing. The full sympathy hit.

I read somewhere that since Geordie Grieg took over they've added 200k readers. He's a remain voter and has been trying to soften the papers approach on it. Would be interesting to see what they do if there's a third referendum.

[Anny Road]

8 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

You used to have the Swastika as your avatar on here. Then years later you started a thread asking if we should reclaim the symbol because your ‘Indian friend’ had one on his wall. And who could forget the ‘Very African’ kid that you caught nicking sweets from your shop?

 

You are a racist, you are a numpty and I’m not alone in thinking that you’re one of the biggest wankers on this site.

 

I should probably stop there seeing as you’re also dead hard and can windmill the fuck out of six men or some shit. 

 

Tit. 

You are obviously keeping a close watch. Even I don’t remember most of that.

 I’m a racist am I, a numpty wanker and a tit. That’s a full house. On the GF I take that as a compliment.

On the internet it is difficult to windmill anyone. Not that I do that sort of thing anyway. I’m too old. If we met I’d probably just sit in another room or look at the floor.

 

[Captain Turdseye]

At least you can stop pretending you’re not racist now. 

[Anny Road]

2 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

At least you can stop pretending you’re not racist now. 

Having said what I said above I have to clarify that if you called me a racist to my face i’d break your fucking jaw.

[Captain Turdseye]

Just now, Anny Road said:

Having said what I said above I have to clarify that if you called me a racist to my face i’d break your fucking jaw.

 

Oooooh. Like I said, a dead hard racist wanker. That’s you. The ‘dead hard’ part is fairly new but you’ve been coming across on here as racist and xenophobic since long before this Brexit shite. 

[Anny Road]

I’ve never put anyone on ignore and don’t intend to start now but you are pushing it.

Opinions are one thing baseless insults are another. Lash at it mate. I’m not even going to dignify your nonsense with a defence but if you knew me personally to accuse me of racism would be off the scale daft.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Just looked at the last page of this thread to see what was going on and saw alien abduction, Hillary, milking donkeys and swastikas. Cameron should've known stuff like this would happen when he called the referendum.

Admit it, you've missed this place.

[Captain Turdseye]

14 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

I’ve never put anyone on ignore and don’t intend to start now but you are pushing it.

Opinions are one thing baseless insults are another. Lash at it mate. I’m not even going to dignify your nonsense with a defence but if you knew me personally to accuse me of racism would be off the scale daft.

 

Put me on ignore then. You think I give a shit? There are no baseless insults. I gave just a couple of reasons why I think you’re a racist on the last page. They’re some of the memorable ones. There’ve been many other times when your posts have come close to crossing the line. Reading your posts on here for years has led me to the conclusion that you’re a racist wanker. I’m not gonna lie. 

[Anny Road]

Close to crossing the line even in the GF does not give you the right to call me a racist.

That in your own words means I never crossed the line. I’m a racist though.

I challenge you to go through your catalogue of my posts and find one contextual racist remark.

Save you the time you won’t find one.

Rather than lower myself to your level with insults and bickering I think I’ll just leave this alone.

[Hades]

41 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

At least you can stop pretending you’re not racist now. 

I'm not one to lecture anyone given my posting history but there is a secondary consideration here. Errantly labelling people racist doesn't hurt you in the backlash, it hurts innocent people of colour. A far better approach would be to appeal to the universal reason and decency of man than throw around labels.

[Denny Crane]

As if there aren't enough wheelers and dealers in the Tory government, they have bought in Harry Redknapp.

 

 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

14 minutes ago, Hades said:

I'm not one to lecture anyone given my posting history but there is a secondary consideration here. Errantly labelling people racist doesn't hurt you in the backlash, it hurts innocent people of colour. A far better approach would be to appeal to the universal reason and decency of man than throw around labels.

Who are you, and what the fuck have you done with Hades?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

25 minutes ago, Hades said:

I'm not one to lecture anyone given my posting history but there is a secondary consideration here. Errantly labelling people racist doesn't hurt you in the backlash, it hurts innocent people of colour. A far better approach would be to appeal to the universal reason and decency of man than throw around labels.

Yeah, but what about when it's not "errant"?  If someone says "I hate people people who have a different skin colour because their skin is a different colour" then surely it's legitimate to call them racist?

 

And any "backlash"  is absolutely the fault of people who propagate the lie about "white straight men are the real victims", people who believe that lie and people who act on it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

A handy illustration of why Labour haven't been able to go full Remain from Day One.

 

 

I've not checked, but I'd be surprised if there were a comparable list of winnable Tory seats which voted Leave.

 

If Labour adopt the position of "You're all wrong, we know better, we're going to ignore you" they can kiss these seats goodbye and, in doing so, hand the keys of the kingdom to the worst of the Tory neoliberal racist hardliners for the foreseeable future.  I'd rather they don't do that.

[Hades]

32 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Yeah, but what about when it's not "errant"?  If someone says "I hate people people who have a different skin colour because their skin is a different colour" then surely it's legitimate to call them racist?

 

And any "backlash"  is absolutely the fault of people who propagate the lie about "white straight men are the real victims", people who believe that lie and people who act on it.

Someone might be a racist for the wrong reasons ie. a mistaken belief that people of other races don't have right to the fruits of their ancestors' achievements. You show that person the error in their reasoning by pointing out that the moral circle of concern isn't set in stone. It's not 'White Man's Burden' for the 21st century but simply a recognition that different people evolved under different conditions and some compromise is necessary to prevent the greater evil of genocide. A minor level of cultural pluralism will be necessary in the short term to achieve the historical project. This would require a degree of acknowledgement of the ingrained historical and biological differences between groups of people, which the left is unwilling to concede, I guess, for pragmatic reasons.

 

 

[magicrat]

29 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

A handy illustration of why Labour haven't been able to go full Remain from Day One.

 

 

I've not checked, but I'd be surprised if there were a comparable list of winnable Tory seats which voted Leave.

 

If Labour adopt the position of "You're all wrong, we know better, we're going to ignore you" they can kiss these seats goodbye and, in doing so, hand the keys of the kingdom to the worst of the Tory neoliberal racist hardliners for the foreseeable future.  I'd rather they don't do that.

Me neither but I doubt the maths would be quite so hard for Leave with UKIP dead in the water now. There is also the Country v Party argument and I've said from the start that had Labour forcibly faced down UKIP and their lies and put the National interest case they could have altered the narrative a year ago. Too late now as the dice are cast but we will see if they really swing behind a second vote when the other options are exhausted. No way do I see a GE happening this side of Brexit which is clearly their main aim .

[AngryOfTuebrook]

42 minutes ago, Hades said:

Someone might be a racist for the wrong reasons ie. a mistaken belief that people of other races don't have right to the fruits of their ancestors' achievements. You show that person the error in their reasoning by pointing out that the moral circle of concern isn't set in stone. It's not 'White Man's Burden' for the 21st century but simply a recognition that different people evolved under different conditions and some compromise is necessary to prevent the greater evil of genocide. A minor level of cultural pluralism will be necessary in the short term to achieve the historical project. This would require a degree of acknowledgement of the ingrained historical and biological differences between groups of people, which the left is unwilling to concede, I guess, for pragmatic reasons.

 

 

What the actual bollocks are you on about?

 

"Racist for the wrong reasons"? Do you think there are "right" reasons to hate someone because they are superficially slightly different to you?

 

There are no "biological differences between groups of people". There are just people.  That's not a left-wing view.  It's a scientific fact proven by Darwin and accepted by every serious scientist in the world. 

 

All racism is built on lies.

[Hades]

6 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

What the actual bollocks are you on about?

 

"Racist for the wrong reasons"? Do you think there are "right" reasons to hate someone because they are superficially slightly different to you?

 

There are no "biological differences between groups of people". There are just people.  That's not a left-wing view.  It's a scientific fact proven by Darwin and accepted by every serious scientist in the world. 

 

All racism is built on lies.

I'm sorry to say it's an outdated view. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 minutes ago, Hades said:

I'm sorry to say it's an outdated view. 

Scientific facts don't become "outdated". 

 

The theories of scientific racism were overturned by evidence 150 years ago. The evidence against racism has been piling up ever since. Not one iota of evidence has been found to support the existence of separate "races" let alone justify one "race" claiming superiority over another.

 

It really doesn't matter if Trump's "very fine people" claim otherwise: facts remain facts.

 

(In other news, the world really is round.)

[Hades]

You cannot concede the scientific high ground to the worst of the right.

 

https://quillette.com/2016/06/23/on-the-reality-of-race-and-the-abhorrence-of-racism/

 

https://quillette.com/2016/08/09/on-the-reality-of-race-the-abhorrence-of-racism-part-ii-human-biodiversity-its-implications/

[moof]

Hades, look at the sources you’re quoting, for fucks sake man