Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[mattyq]

4 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Spanish civil war , post depression Germany.  Possibly not

Haha, I see what you did there!

 

Half a million people died in the Spanish Civil War and it led to 40 years of Fascist dictatorship but if you take the long view then it all turned out all right... they're in the EU now... oh, isn't that bad?

 

Depression Germany led to the rise of Hitler and the death of approximately 80 million people in WW2 but, again, it turned out well with Germany being one of the richest countries in the world but. Fuck, they're in the EU now

 

It's almost as if chaos and disruption cause untold suffering, pain and misery and in the end you join the EU

I wonder if there is a moral to the story?

 

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, mattyq said:

Haha, I see what you did there!

 

Half a million people died in the Spanish Civil War and it led to 40 years of Fascist dictatorship but if you take the long view then it all turned out all right... they're in the EU now... oh, isn't that bad?

 

Depression Germany led to the rise of Hitler and the death of approximately 80 million people in WW2 but, again, it turned out well with Germany being one of the richest countries in the world but. Fuck, they're in the EU now

 

It's almost as if chaos and disruption cause untold suffering, pain and misery and in the end you join the EU

I wonder if there is a moral to the story?

 

 

I think you consider the possibility Spain and Germany might just have been OK without Fascist lunatics causing millions of death and untold misery in the process.

[aRdja]

Révolution française?

[mattyq]

3 minutes ago, magicrat said:

 

I think you consider the possibility Spain and Germany might just have been OK without Fascist lunatics causing millions of death and untold misery in the process.

Yeah, but apparently you need a bit of that...

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

Révolution française?

Guillotining people is so not cool these days

[magicrat]

2 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Yeah, but apparently you need a bit of that...

Are you volunteering ?

[mattyq]

3 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Révolution française?

50,000 died and it led to Napolean and a 20 year world war which caused the deaths of a further 5 million and which they comprehensively lost 

[mattyq]

3 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Are you volunteering ?

Gnasher & Anny are.

They're willing to sacrifice themselves and their family on the tree of liberty and the altar of freedom 

 

[magicrat]

Just now, mattyq said:

Gnasher & Anny are.

They're willing to sacrifice themselves and their family on the tree of liberty and the altar of freedom 

 

I'm just going to keep my head down and join the queue for sausages

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Yes and? 

 

I might have guessed you're a man who hasn't watched Blazing Saddles enough.

 

Actually, it's not just you. I'm disappointed that nobody came up with the correct response. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

The current EU is imo like a Thatcher wet dream.

 

See how the eu  responded to Greece as an example.

Nice to see you finally acknowledge that the neoliberal direction is "the current EU" and not inherent to the EU. 

[polymerpunkah]

 

"Is anybody in there?"

 

[Gnasher]

9 hours ago, magicrat said:

Spanish civil war , post depression Germany.  Possibly not

Or you could have said  the breaking of the Berlin Wall or the Russians and French getting rid of their parasites  ie respective royal families.

 

Anyway on a serious note if you're one of the unfortunate one in fives (euro youth unemployment) or one of the million to use a food bank your life is a living  chaos.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Or you could have said  the breaking of the Berlin Wall or the Russians and French getting rid of their parasites  ie respective royal families.

 

Anyway on a serious note if you're one of the unfortunate one in fives (euro youth unemployment) or one of the million to use a food bank your life is a living  chaos.

I repeat: the trouble with this poorly-thought-through line of reasoning is that most people who you claim have "nothing to lose" are likely to be the biggest losers from chaos. The poor and the working class are most likely to lose their lives, or have friends and family killed, or lose their homes or wind up in prison. 

 

The French and Russian Revolutions (under the weight of external counter-revolution and internal divisions) set the pattern for this.

[Creator Supreme]

9 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I might have guessed you're a man who hasn't watched Blazing Saddles enough.

 

Actually, it's not just you. I'm disappointed that nobody came up with the correct response. 

 

 

"Gnasher, you're on your own!"

[skend04]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheOfficialGRB/status/1059541483311824897

 

Brilliant reaction to Gnash...I mean Farage.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

13 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Yes and? 

 

Are you suggesting that a facist philosopher should stop people rebelling against the powers that be? 

 

Seems a bit  'as you were, carry on as normal, nothing to see here Sir' going on.

 

I know im in a minority  (on here) but i dont degrade the the people who choose to shake  the tree.

Nietzsche wasn’t a fascist you fuckwit.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Friedenreich said:

Nietzsche wasn’t a fascist you fuckwit.

But he was a Teutonic twat.

[Anny Road]

11 hours ago, mattyq said:

Gnasher & Anny are.

They're willing to sacrifice themselves and their family on the tree of liberty and the altar of freedom 

 

I'm not wanting to sacrifice anything.

I'd happily pay our subs, maintain a customs union, free movement and as close as possible trading relationship with the EU. However if you are stupid enough to ask me the question of whether or not I want to be in a political union with them you will only get one answer.

You may get a different one if I am asked do I prefer to be a member or thrown off a cliff with no agreement in place.

We are not there yet and that decision is coming. 

[skend04]

3 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

I'm not wanting to sacrifice anything.

I'd happily pay our subs, maintain a customs union, free movement and as close as possible trading relationship with the EU. However if you are stupid enough to ask me the question of whether or not I want to be in a political union with them you will only get one answer.

You may get a different one if I am asked do I prefer to be a member or thrown off a cliff with no agreement in place.

We are not there yet and that decision is coming. 

Which referendum did you vote in because that definitely wasn't the question on the ballot paper. Not really dispelling the worry that people didn't know what they were voting for.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Here are some interesting questions about youth unemployment in the EU  (specifically about the lack of clear patterns and obvious explanations).

 

https://www.socialeurope.eu/why-such-disparity-between-unemployment-rates-in-europe

 

(NB - There are also some links I've not yet followed in which people explore the subject further. )

[Vincent Vega]

The tide seems to be starting to turn according to  a poll of 20,000 people by Survation for Channel 4, with it now being 54% in favour of remain, and many areas having a change of heart.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/major-new-brexit-poll-shows-voters-swinging-towards-remain

 

Brexit map if we had a new vote according to the poll:

 

 

Brexit map from the referendum:

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

I'm not wanting to sacrifice anything.

I'd happily pay our subs, maintain a customs union, free movement and as close as possible trading relationship with the EU. However if you are stupid enough to ask me the question of whether or not I want to be in a political union with them you will only get one answer.

You may get a different one if I am asked do I prefer to be a member or thrown off a cliff with no agreement in place.

We are not there yet and that decision is coming. 

How are you defining "a political union"? Are you thinking of the EU as it is today, or some hypothetical centralised super-state in the future? Or something else?

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

44 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

But he was a Teutonic twat.

I’ll accept he was a mad syphillitic fucker by the time he croaked, but he wasn’t a nazi, wasn’t an anti-Semite, wasn’t all too fond of the Germans, he was a fucking head case and he he was a great phliosopher. His sister was a massive twat. Nietzsche was fucking ok.

[Anny Road]

24 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

How are you defining "a political union"? Are you thinking of the EU as it is today, or some hypothetical centralised super-state in the future? Or something else?

 

30 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Which referendum did you vote in because that definitely wasn't the question on the ballot paper. Not really dispelling the worry that people didn't know what they were voting for.

By it's very nature the EU is a Political Union. That should not even be up for discussion.

In terms of the future anyone that suspects the EU will participate in some huge devolution of power from the centre must be living in a different world than me. Its whole ethos is centralisation and harmonisation. Europe is ace, its not going anywhere. I just don't want to be in a Political State with Greece and Hungary thanks.

Trade is paramount and I think we will need to take it in the arse to maintain our relationship in this respect. That is a price I am willing to pay. Economic Moggian meltdown not so much.