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Anny Road

Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

300 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      243
    • No
      57


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The 2004 influx was a mistake in my experience.  Not because of the people in particular (those communities have helped prop up our high streets while British people retreated to online services), but the rate of change (compounded by the credit crunch - which was unlucky in terms of it's timing, if nothing else).  It not only disenfranchised quite a few brits, but also a large swathe of existing migrant labour (which has had a knock on effect in terms of social unease in some cases).  The factory I worked in on/off during my uni years changed dramatically over this time, a load of Afghan, Pakistani (large numbers of them leaving their homes and careers post-9/11) and West Indian workers I knew from overtime stints disappeared as the extra hours people relied on dried up (a large number of them took up work with local taxi firms where they could work longer hours).

 

Went from a new and active part of local communities (factory was in a village just off the M5) to cleaning up vomit and babysitting asshole students as part of the city's service economy.

 

It's not an anti-immigration position to say that Labour fucked up and should have paid attention to the moves made in Europe.

 

edit: just like they persistently failed to properly incentivise NHS careers in the UK.

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Freedom of movement without guaranteeing equal rights for all workers is a neoliberal wet dream; it allows unscrupulous employers (and forces those who find themselves competing against unscrupulous employers in an immoral system) to undercut local workers with a cheaper imported workforce.  The employers engineer a race to the bottom, knowing that they willreap the rewards, while the inevitable backlash will be aimed at the immigrant workers.

 

Any Labour Party worthy of the name will promote the rights of all workers equally. That's the way to reduce the numbers of  immigrants "coming over here and stealing our jobs"; simply make them compete for jobs on a level playing field, by forcing the employers to give them the same rates and rights as the local workforce. 

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Here in Aotearoa, all immigrants are guaranteed minimum wage - all people on working visas, also. Employers try to pay less, but the paper trail gets them eventually, with hefty fines and name shaming. Not good for the image.

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12 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

Here in Aotearoa, all immigrants are guaranteed minimum wage - all people on working visas, also. Employers try to pay less, but the paper trail gets them eventually, with hefty fines and name shaming. Not good for the image.

Fuck off Code. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..... 

 

But welcome Red Shift. 

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Being an immigrant doesn't circumvent minimum wage law.  If they are working legally, the same rights apply.  The issue is that over the last 30/40 years the nature of working class work has transformed, with industries dismantled and job security eroded, consistently undermining the rights and safeguards of all workers.  Careers to be replaced with jobs, to be replaced with the 'gig'.

 

I believe the view is that the introduction of a large number of people, for whom the lowest paid roles still represented a more lucrative opportunity than available at home, in a short space of time flooded the market and removed what little security people had retained.  After twenty years of being told by the tories they were expendable, labour turned around and told them they were replaceable.  Prior to the credit crunch there was already a job crisis bubbling away, then the financial crisis, recession, austerity...

 

Plus the lib dems stabbed anyone who actually believed they might represent a chance for change right in the back.  It's no fucking wonder politics has been declining back towards extremes.

 

None of this excuses Brexit though, not in the slightest.  It's a fool's errand that may see a lot of foreign workers leave the country, but a lot of jobs will leave with them.  Either by design or through failure.  With the inevitable raft of trade deals that will follow we will see further breakdown of institutions and rights.  Cronyism rules and the NHS is very unlikely to make it's 100th birthday - unless we come up with something lucrative like a nice big war or two.

 

Basically if there's any chance whatsoever of stopping this mess, we need it.  Or at least we need a workable exit plan.  Unfortunately the people representing us have absolutely no interest in such a thing.

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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/20/wetherspoons-and-mcdonalds-staff-to-strike-together

 

Ah, so this is why Tim Martin wants us so desperately to go for a no deal. Happy to pay poverty wages and so wants to burn employment rights like that book written by Brexit Tories discusses. Gnasher is on the side of neoliberals like this. I think Gnasher is actually a neolib for all his protestations about trains.

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Probably not the most important concern but I wonder what impact this will have on the Catholic church in Britain. In the mid noughties quite a lot of churches were facing closure because of declining numbers until there was a sudden influx of Polish Catholics to put bums on seats (and knees on cushions). 

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http://uk.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-trade-deal-scrap-european-union-food-standards-after-brexit-2018-9

 

"Henry the VIII powers won't be abused" they told us. Goodbye farming and hello mass produced rubbish and poor health. Which will force us to buy health insurance when they privatise the NHS. Which in turn will leave us serfs in perpetuity. 

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Say hello surges in cancer 

 

 

Sounds like time to fuck off eating meat and fish and they will go to shit with added chemicals

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Macron: "Brexit is the choice of the British people... pushed by those who predicted easy solutions... Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it."

 

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Quote

Viktor Orban, Hungary’s nationalist conservative leader, said this morning that he was in a “camp” of prime ministers who were “getting a majority” for a “fair Brexit”. He added: “The other camp would like to deliver evidence that to make that kind of decision is to be punished and that the British must suffer. I don’t like that approach at all.”

 

PestiRed’s boy has got our back but the French and Germans are fucking us over. 

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4 minutes ago, Anny Road said:

If the EU agree to TM deal what should Labour do?

 

im expecting plenty of answers.

Not been listening to the news today?

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1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Labour seriously need to call for a second referendum, and say that if this government falls apart, they will offer one. 

Agreed . Lets see what comes out of the conference next week but I'm not holding my breath

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3 hours ago, moof said:

Chequers is dead in the water. Looks like we’ll be having a general election before the year’s out 

 

Corbyn to be PM and Liverpool to win the league by May 2019 is quite feasible. 

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6 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

 

Corbyn to be PM and Liverpool to win the league by May 2019 is quite feasible. 

 

If you could only take one of them which one would it be?

 

Fucking tough choice, that. 

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Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will push for an election if PM can't get a deal through Parliament. "Our preference is a general election - let the people decide what direction they want to go. We've made it very clear; we understand and respect the results of the referendum"

 

I hoped he’d come out against it.  Pyrrhic victory and risking a hard Brexit if he loses.   

 

 

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Just now, Captain Turdseye said:

 

If you could only take one of them which one would it be?

 

Fucking tough choice, that. 

Easy choice Labour in power with Corbyn as PM. The league gets played every year. Quick count suggest only 10 general elections since 1979.

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