Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Anny Road]

Anny - your vision of a decent and powerful Opposition Leader is not one that exists, or can exist, in the real world, where a tiny handful of tax-dodging billionaires dictate the opinions of millions of people.

 

The next step in your vision - a country in which people are empowered and are able to invent and build our way through whatever the future throws at us - is even further removed from reality.

Then we are all fucked regardless EU or not.

I assume you are younger than me I'm mid 40.

You fuckers need to get your act together politically.

You have all the tools but you prefer to by shoes.

 

Political cowards. Your generation is the worse.

 

I'll blame thatcher. When i went to the Albert docks it was to get the bus home with my dad after work not to buy shoes.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Not sure what makes you think I'm young - it can't be my youthful optimism and joie de vivre.  In your mid-40s?  You're a mere slip of a boy.

 

The bottom line is that in the EU we were considerably less fucked.  By leaving, we have placed our tadgers in the hands of psychos with rusty knives.

 

Also - I've always viewed buying shoes (or any sort of shopping) as a chore.

[VladimirIlyich]

No mate we need an effective opposition. One with ideas of trade and social justice. A leader with aspirations to govern a united nation happy to trade with the EU and the rest of the world.

Not a country on an every narrowing road to a United States of Europe. Good luck to them but that is not something I want to be part of.

I do not want to share democratic decision making with Albania and share resources such as fishing with countries with no sea border.

I want power to come down not go up. A federal Europe even a federal U.K. Would be my ideal. Every citizen in touch with people in positions of power.

Not Mr and Mrs Kinnock, Kinnock jnr and no doubt his missus soon enough.

The EU is a grand principal but a shit practical example of power sharing.

Yes we do and we will never,ever get it with Tories,and yet leavers chose now to do it! You really couldn't have picked a worse time!

[magicrat]

I totally get the argument that we should take back power from the EU and give it to the people , Problem is millions of borderline racists are now feeling empowered and the Tories are driving the country over a cliff 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I wonder what njackets thinks of the ruling of the EU Court of Justice which makes it legal for employers to ban the hijab at work.

 

Fortunately Brexit means that the UK Supreme Court will have the final word in this so British Muslims will have their religious rights protected.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I totally get the argument that we should take back power from the EU and give it to the people , Problem is millions of borderline racists are now feeling empowered and the Tories are driving the country over a cliff

Also, of course, it's a con.

 

Any powers retrieved from the EU will land in Westminster and not be devolved any further.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some interesting thoughts from the IPPR.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/11/brexit-kibasi-ippr-article-50-referendum-remain-leave?utm_source=IPPR+weekly+newsletter&utm_campaign=a4f501af58-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_03_15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0b30c067fe-a4f501af58-277618161

 

At this juncture in our history, we face a crucial choice. Will this be a moment for national renewal, where we courageously confront our problems, or will we simply attempt to muddle through? Nothing would be more British than the latter – and that would appear to be where both sides of the Brexit divide are taking us...

 

In many respects, the vote to leave the European Union was paradoxical. It was a vote for change that made positive change harder to achieve, but change of some sort much more likely. First and foremost, our economy is in need of deep, fundamental change.

 

Yet neither Remainers nor Brexiters are facing up to our problems – and their failures are letting Britain down. During the referendum, Remain campaigners argued that things were fine when they were not and, since the result, Brexiters have argued that things will be fine when without serious change they will not be...

 

There are multiple symptoms of a distressed economy, many of which stretch back for decades. Brexit is not the cause of these problems, but it should force us to face the diagnosis. We need a new national economic policy that is pro-growth and pro-economic justice.

 

First, we have an investment problem. Investment is the engine of the economy, driving wealth and prosperity now and in the future. For a quarter of a century, the proportion of the economy dedicated to investment has been declining...

 

The second major problem is poor productivity. Low investment leads in turn to low productivity, and thence to low wages. As Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman observed: “Productivity isn’t everything, but in the long run it is almost everything.” Since the financial crisis, productivity growth in the British economy has stalled, leading to a stagnation in living standards for the majority of households.

 

The third problem is trade. It is all well and good to aspire to be a “great global trading nation” but today we have a massive trade deficit. If countries are queueing up for a free trade deal with Britain – and it’s not clear that they are – it is because we’re an importer, not an exporter...

 

The fourth problem is inequality between households. In the 1980s, the gap between the richest and poorest in society accelerated rapidly, where it has stubbornly remained ever since...

 

The fifth problem is the profound regional imbalance of our economy. London is the wealthiest region in Europe and, together with the south-east of England, accounts for 40% of national output. Meanwhile, all other regions of the UK lag behind most other regions of northern Europe...

 

As well as facing up to the deep and persistent problems in the economy today, we need to prepare ourselves for a decade of disruption. The changes on the horizon have the potential to reshape our economy and society – for good or for ill, depending on the quality of our response...

 

During a campaign that revealed the public’s appetite for change, Remainers had fought an uninspiring campaign for the status quo. There was no attempt to make the positive case for international co-operation. No account was given of how Britain had shaped the EU, nor any roadmap offered for how we might influence its future to better respond to the big drivers of change.

 

The first driver of change is what has been described as the fourth industrial revolution: exponential improvements in new technologies...

 

The second big driver of change is demographics. Our population will continue to grow, with the UK set to become more populous than France by 2030, and exceeding Germany’s population by 2040 to become Europe’s biggest country. At the same time, the population is set to age significantly, with a 66% increase in the number of people over the age of 75...

 

The continuing shift in economic power eastwards is the third driver of change. By 2030, emerging economies will have emerged: they will account for half of global output, up from a quarter today...

 

The final – and most perilous – driver of change is the new geological era we appear to have entered, where human activity has become the dominating influence on nature...

 

There are two possible broad choices. One is to embrace greater international co-operation, act in the belief that a problem shared is a problem halved; that just as capital flows and firms operate across borders, so there will be a greater premium on nation states working together in the future. That argument – the positive case for the EU – was never really put to voters. Exiting the EU makes this path significantly harder.

 

The other choice is to argue that the extraordinary pace of change means that it will be agility – the ability to respond rapidly and flexibly to change – that will matter. If this is true, then Britain might be better placed to prosper outside the clunky framework of European regulations and institutions. This argument was only ever made in the abstract, devoid of any substantive actions...

 

The politics of the future will belong to those leaders who are prepared to face up to our present problems and future challenges – and to articulate a new destination for our economy and society. As our politicians navigate the Brexit storms, they would do well to keep an eye on the new horizons which will come to define the new era of British politics. 

[magicrat]

Families leaving because of Brexit

 

This local family leaving is far from an isolated incident, My kids know 2 families that are going . Both married with kids and been settled her for years, one partner being from the EU,  An ex neighbour of mine has gone to Berlin. She is German and they have a small child. In all these cases the people are hard working tax payers that are contributing to our society. Those that know them personally think its terrible and shouldn't be happening yet some of those very same people support Brexit and are in denial about the racist undertones and the way good people are being made to feel unwelcome and threatened, The fact that the government are using them as bargaining chips and has refused to guarantee the status of long term EU residents is shameful and gives oxygen to the disgusting animals that are preaching hatred and division . Brexit has allowed the scum to rise to the surface

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39305860

[Rico1304]

I wonder what njackets thinks of the ruling of the EU Court of Justice which makes it legal for employers to ban the hijab at work.

Fortunately Brexit means that the UK Supreme Court will have the final word in this so British Muslims will have their religious rights protected.

That's not true though is it? Or at the very least it's a very very biased view.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

That's not true though is it? Or at the very least it's a very very biased view.

What's untrue?

[Rico1304]

What's untrue?

It allows, in limited circumstances, for employers to ban all forms of religious representation. Like the BA stewardess who was fired for wearing a cross. It has no mention of muslims.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

It allows, in limited circumstances, for employers to ban all forms of religious representation. Like the BA stewardess who was fired for wearing a cross. It has no mention of muslims.

So, what I said isn't untrue at all, then.

 

I assumed, to any intelligent people, the fact that both the EU and the UK rulings are aimed at all religions equally should have been obvious.  I highlighted the implications for Muslims because I was talking about njackets; the bias is (what I believe is) his, not mine.

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

 

All those old people who voted out will not need to worry about being treated by all them foreign types. It's a shitter when you also realise applications for nursing courses are also on the wane. No doubt the NHS is fucked but do we even have enough staff for privatised healthcare?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

 

All those old people who voted out will not need to worry about being treated by all them foreign types. It's a shitter when you also realise applications for nursing courses are also on the wane. No doubt the NHS is fucked but do we even have enough staff for privatised healthcare?

Yeah, but without all them foreign nurses taking our jobs, there are now plenty of opportunities for British nurses.

 

Oh, wait a minute...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/02/nursing-degree-applications-slump-after-nhs-bursaries-abolished

[Lee909]

Yep,no way my sister could have got through Uni without her bursary.

Student nurses cannot work round the course as they constantly need time off as they work near full time in hospitals for months at a time while on the course.

 

No doubt it will turn into private healthcare companies paying a bursary for students then locking them into working for them for X number of yeas or charging them the full amount of the course if they dont

[Chairman Meow]

No doubt it will turn into private healthcare companies paying a bursary for students then locking them into working for them for X number of yeas or charging them the full amount of the course if they dont

 

While paying them as little as possible for that period as well. 

[Kloppite]

So if the EU create an armed force that wasn't going to happen when the UK was in it(we still are of course)then wouldn't it have been safer and better to remain part of it? Then they wouldn't have to 'attack' us!

Why would the European Union need a standing army if the sole reason for the EU was to prevent war?

 

It's a bit like an anti gun campaigner buying a gun to protect themselves.

 

You would ask the question of the individual what they were actually doing that required them to own a gun for self defence.

[Kloppite]

Not sure what makes you think I'm young - it can't be my youthful optimism and joie de vivre. In your mid-40s? You're a mere slip of a boy.

 

The bottom line is that in the EU we were considerably less fucked. By leaving, we have placed our tadgers in the hands of psychos with rusty knives.

 

Also - I've always viewed buying shoes (or any sort of shopping) as a chore.

I don't understand why you think the politicians of the other EU states are any better.

 

Ask any Romanian about that Nicolai Chowshku fella and they will say he was a cunt they will also say how their current politicians are just as bad as they are only interested in themselves. Then ask the rest of the people from other EU countries about getting shut of communism and they will tell you the same politicians are still ruling their countries much like Russia.

 

So claiming that the EU politicians are going to save us is a bit deluded imo.

[magicrat]

I don't understand why you think the politicians of the other EU states are any better.

 

Ask any Romanian about that Nicolai Chowshku fella and they will say he was a cunt they will also say how their current politicians are just as bad as they are only interested in themselves. Then ask the rest of the people from other EU countries about getting shut of communism and they will tell you the same politicians are still ruling their countries much like Russia.

 

So claiming that the EU politicians are going to save us is a bit deluded imo.

 

Nonsense. The EU demands a large degree of consensus, extremist views and policies are largely marginalised and it has for the most part seen centre left liberal initiatives and laws . The main reason why the Tories and more extreme wankers ion the right have battled for decades to take us out. and have now mugged the country by playing on xenophobic fears and outright lies about the benefits into sacrificing their rights enshrined in European treaties,     

[Kloppite]

Nonsense. The EU demands a large degree of consensus, extremist views and policies are largely marginalised and it has for the most part seen centre left liberal initiatives and laws . The main reason why the Tories and more extreme wankers ion the right have battled for decades to take us out. and have now mugged the country by playing on xenophobic fears and outright lies about the benefits into sacrificing their rights enshrined in European treaties,

Speak to any Romanian and ask them about their politicians.

[magicrat]

Speak to any Romanian and ask them about their politicians.

 

Yeh they're a shower of shite, Fortunately the Romanians have some protection from the EU and can move around,  Reforms will happen, 

[VladimirIlyich]

Why would the European Union need a standing army if the sole reason for the EU was to prevent war?

 

It's a bit like an anti gun campaigner buying a gun to protect themselves.

 

You would ask the question of the individual what they were actually doing that required them to own a gun for self defence.

I never said they were creating an army. I merely responded to somebody who said they were creating one.

[Gnasher]

Dug their own grave

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37493956

[Rico1304]

So, what I said isn't untrue at all, then.

 

I assumed, to any intelligent people, the fact that both the EU and the UK rulings are aimed at all religions equally should have been obvious. I highlighted the implications for Muslims because I was talking about njackets; the bias is (what I believe is) his, not mine.

http://humanistlife.org.uk/2017/03/15/no-the-european-court-of-justice-has-not-banned-headscarves-in-the-workplace/

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I don't understand why you think the politicians of the other EU states are any better.

 

Ask any Romanian about that Nicolai Chowshku fella and they will say he was a cunt they will also say how their current politicians are just as bad as they are only interested in themselves. Then ask the rest of the people from other EU countries about getting shut of communism and they will tell you the same politicians are still ruling their countries much like Russia.

 

So claiming that the EU politicians are going to save us is a bit deluded imo.

I have never claimed that other countries' politicians are inherently better than those in the UK or that they're going to save us.