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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

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  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      242
    • No
      57


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I don't know either. I thought somebody might know.

 

Are people so thick, not to mention mean-spirited, that they think withdrawing from the EU will absolve us of our charter responsibilities to refugees?

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What the fuck does a handful of rapey immigrants have to do with the EU though?!

 

It goes back to Neil G asserting that immigration will be the biggest issue on people's minds during the referendum. It wouldn't surprise me if that is the case, and stories like this are going to turn people to voting out. To be honest it's not just going to be refugees, there will be a significant amount of people that want to stop immigration from places like Poland and Romania.

 

Obviously you can disagree with that but I don't think people are going to be turned round by calling them stupid or racist.

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It goes back to Neil G asserting that immigration will be the biggest issue on people's minds during the referendum. It wouldn't surprise me if that is the case, and stories like this are going to turn people to voting out. To be honest it's not just going to be refugees, there will be a significant amount of people that want to stop immigration from places like Poland and Romania.

 

Obviously you can disagree with that but I don't think people are going to be turned round by calling them stupid or racist.

 

Oh, I've no doubt the biggest issue will be immigration, none whatsoever. At least amongst the Leave mob.

 

As a general rule, that is because they are stupid and racist.

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Having concerns about immigration doesn't make you stupid or racist but I'd like to see you try and convince people to change their minds with that approach.

 

Like it or not these people will need convincing otherwise with solid arguments not insults.

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Oh, I've no doubt the biggest issue will be immigration, none whatsoever. At least amongst the Leave mob.

 

As a general rule, that is because they are stupid and racist.

 

What an imbecilic mind some people have.

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Having concerns about immigration doesn't make you stupid or racist but I'd like to see you try and convince people to change their minds with that approach.

 

Like it or not these people will need convincing otherwise with solid arguments not insults.

 

What "concerns about immigration" is leaving the EU going to address?

 

They're not going to be convinced because these people are, by definition, impervious to reasoned argument. They believe the EU has regulations on the curvature of bananas. For fucks sake!

 

Britain is on the fast train to fuckcentral. If you thought 2008 was a crisis, you ain't seen nothing yet.

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What "concerns about immigration" is leaving the EU going to address?

 

They're not going to be convinced because these people are, by definition, impervious to reasoned argument. They believe the EU has regulations on the curvature of bananas. For fucks sake!

 

Britain is on the fast train to fuckcentral. If you thought 2008 was a crisis, you ain't seen nothing yet.

 

They don't all believe that. You can't generalise that everyone who has an issue with immigration is a UKIP fruitloop. They obviously believe being outside the EU and the principles of free movement will restrict immigration. Again, you won't convince them otherwise by calling them racists.

 

The In campaign are going to be hung by their own hubris if they go down that route.

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They don't all believe that. You can't generalise that everyone who has an issue with immigration is a UKIP fruitloop. They obviously believe being outside the EU and the principles of free movement will restrict immigration. Again, you won't convince them otherwise by calling them racists.

 

But, like I say, what issues with immigration do they believe coming out of the EU will solve?

 

And why do they have such an issue with foreigners coming here unless they're utter racists?

 

Walking through our cities and seeing people with every skin colour under the sun and hearing a dozen different accents should be a source of unmitigated pride in this country, not a reason to cling to nasty myths.

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But, like I say, what issues with immigration do they believe coming out of the EU will solve?

 

And why do they have such an issue with foreigners coming here unless they're utter racists?

 

Walking through our cities and seeing people with every skin colour under the sun and hearing a dozen different accents should be a source of unmitigated pride in this country, not a reason to cling to nasty myths.

 

I've already answered your first question in the post you quote.

 

So, just to confirm, you think if you have any issue at all with immigration - even if that is you think it puts a strain on local services in your area if you live in a poor area that has seen a lot of new arrivals - then you are an utter racist?

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I've already answered your first question in the post you quote.

 

Sorry, let me be more clear. You wrote:

 

They obviously believe being outside the EU and the principles of free movement will restrict immigration

 

My question is: WHY do they believe that?

 

 

So, just to confirm, you think if you have any issue at all with immigration - even if that is you think it puts a strain on local services in your area if you live in a poor area that has seen a lot of new arrivals - then you are an utter racist?

 

Even if I believed that immigration was putting a strain on services anywhere, the last people I would blame for that are immigrants. It's like blaming the passengers for the fact that Titanic wasn't carrying enough lifeboats.

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Having concerns about unrestricted unskilled immigration is not racism. Why would it be?

I would not call the Aussies racist but they simply would not let me roll up there and get an unskilled job.

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Sorry, let me be more clear. You wrote:

 

They obviously believe being outside the EU and the principles of free movement will restrict immigration

 

My question is: WHY do they believe that?

 

 

 

 

Even if I believed that immigration was putting a strain on services anywhere, the last people I would blame for that are immigrants. It's like blaming the passengers for the fact that Titanic wasn't carrying enough lifeboats.

 

Why is Cameron trying to negoiate a brake to temporarily stop people coming here? Because at the moment the UK cannot restrict the movement of EU nationals. If we aren't in the EU people obviously think we could slow immigration down a lot more easily.

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Having concerns about unrestricted unskilled immigration is not racism. Why would it be?

I would not call the Aussies racist but they simply would not let me roll up there and get an unskilled job.

I'm struggling to think of reasons why I should give a shit if a foreigner gets a job. Assuming I even noticed in the first place.

 

Fucking baffling the priorities people have.

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Why is Cameron trying to negoiate a brake to temporarily stop people coming here? Because at the moment the UK cannot restrict the movement of EU nationals. If we aren't in the EU people obviously think we could slow immigration down a lot more easily.

 

 

Cameron's negotiations are all about patching up his hopelessly split party.

 

Yes, it's clear from your earlier responses that people think we could slow immigration if we weren't in the EU - my question was WHY do they believe that.

 

I'm not even getting into why people are stupid enough to believe that slowing or stopping immigration is a good thing in the first place.

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Yes, it is apparently well documented. Mostly robbed and groped (about 3:1), a couple of reported rapes. In Cologne, about 700 assaults, I thin about 300 were sexual (mostly heavy groping). Groups of 10 to 15 men on one woman, in a circle, then the next victim would come along or be isolated from a small group of passers by or New Year's Eve revelers. From a large group of several hundred gathered near the main railway station. Is this en masse enough for you?

 

You do realise that just because someone makes a complaint it does not mean that anything actually happened to them? Despite CCTV and the fact everyone has a mobile phone there is not one video showing any sexual harassment. 

 

I'm not saying nothing happened, far from it, there is never any smoke without fire. 

 

I believe women did have their arse felt as they walked past a group of pissed up cunts. Some may have been subjected to being groped more seriously, fact is one woman was raped. However, in such circumstances people exaggerate the situation, especially in today's society where they want to post some shit on social media platforms and have a shit load of dick heads giving them solace. Maybe the complaints were made by people who have an anti immigrant agenda, there are enough stories doing the rounds over here that people have admitted to making complaints up. I dare say more women across Germany/The UK/ Sweden have their arse felt on a Saturday night by some pissed up dick head thinking he can do what he wants. More fights being caused by the dick heads who think violence is part of life, violent attacks/murders being caused due to what ever reason. But hey ho, one incident supposedly involving migrants is used as a baton to beat the anti immigrant drum. 

 

I'm in no way trying to make up excuses for the bunch of retards (regardless of nationality) who gathered at the Köln train station to get pissed and cause havoc with fireworks and obviously SOME who took things too far regarding women. I do however find it a bit far fetched that so many women claim to have been groped etc when there is fuck all evidence of it actually happening on such a massive scale. Seriously, if it had happened there would be at least some footage from CCTV or someone's mobile phone etc. All there is to see on the footage available is a bunch of cunts acting like cunts, being rowdy and setting fireworks off. 

 

When you look at these videos you will not see that many African people present, despite the fact many say the majority were African and Arabic nationality. It is clear that a lot look like they have Arabic nationality. Fact is there are a lot of Eastern Europeans who have the same complexion as Arabic or Asian people, especially those with Romany/Gypsy roots. 

 

The coverage in the UK is pointed at the people of the UK and has an agenda. Certain facts and indeed important facts as I have just stated have been left out. If you want to strike fear into people then this is the usual lopsided journalism/reporting which they use, it is not the first time and is used in all sorts of incidents to portray a different picture.

 

Look at the London riots, looting, buildings ablaze, police under attack etc etc.......Not the first massive riot in the UK and it certainly won't be the last, who gets the blame from the Worlds media? Yeah, the blacks....even though footage of those riots showed all sorts of nationalities involved. 

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Cameron's negotiations are all about patching up his hopelessly split party.

 

Yes, it's clear from your earlier responses that people think we could slow immigration if we weren't in the EU - my question was WHY do they believe that.

 

I'm not even getting into why people are stupid enough to believe that slowing or stopping immigration is a good thing in the first place.

 

Because it's true?

 

I'm not even debating whether it's a good thing or not but IF you are someone who wants immigration restricted then it'll be easier doing it outside the EU.

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I'm struggling to think of reasons why I should give a shit if a foreigner gets a job. Assuming I even noticed in the first place.

 

Fucking baffling the priorities people have.

You might be a bit more concerned if you were an unskilled worker being undercut by cheap foreign labour.

I have several mates who worked shifts in a warehouse. Packing shit.

Nights was a great gig with the bonus shift allowance on top of the minimum wage.

That was scrapped and the place is almost entirely staffed by Polish lads on minimum wage 10 to a house.

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You might be a bit more concerned if you were an unskilled worker being undercut by cheap foreign labour.

I have several mates who worked shifts in a warehouse. Packing shit.

Nights was a great gig with the bonus shift allowance on top of the minimum wage.

That was scrapped and the place is almost entirely staffed by Polish lads on minimum wage 10 to a house.

 

I take it you voted UKIP. 

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I take it you voted UKIP. 

Did I fuck. I think Europe is fine. I've no problem with it. I can however see how people could have concerns.

You know I believe it is called thinking.

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Because it's true?

 

So we boot out a few million EU citizens, for no reason other than they weren't born on a particular bit of soil, and the few million Brits in the EU have to come back too. So how has that affected migration numbers?

 

Seems to me the idea that we can reduce the number of people in this country by eradicating our freedom of movement is rooted in completely cockeyed mathematics that ignores the fact that several millions will have to come back the other way.

 

You might be a bit more concerned if you were an unskilled worker being undercut by cheap foreign labour.

I have several mates who worked shifts in a warehouse. Packing shit.

Nights was a great gig with the bonus shift allowance on top of the minimum wage.

That was scrapped and the place is almost entirely staffed by Polish lads on minimum wage 10 to a house.

 

Oh it's anecdote time already.

 

Yes, I'm aware some people are horribly self-serving.

 

Since everyone in this country is an immigrant, the ancestors of your mates are clearly lucky that the British were far more welcoming in times gone by.

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So we boot out a few million EU citizens, for no reason other than they weren't born on a particular bit of soil, and the few million Brits in the EU have to come back too. So how has that affected migration numbers?

 

 

 

Oh it's anecdote time already.

 

Yes, I'm aware some people are horribly self-serving.

 

Since everyone in this country is an immigrant, the ancestors of your mates are clearly lucky that the British were far more welcoming in times gone by.

WTF are you talking about?

I am not for one minute suggesting shutting our borders is the right thing to do or a sensible thing but merely suggesting even sensible rational people can have legitimate concerns about unrestricted immigration and its effect upon the labour market and public services.

Labeling them as racist makes you look the fool.

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So we boot out a few million EU citizens, for no reason other than they weren't born on a particular bit of soil, and the few million Brits in the EU have to come back too. So how has that affected migration numbers?

 

Seems to me the idea that we can reduce the number of people in this country by eradicating our freedom of movement is rooted in completely cockeyed mathematics that ignores the fact that several millions will have to come back the other way.

 

 

Well I think it would be a lot more complicated than that. I'd imagine people already here would get a pass and I doubt the EU would kick British nationals out of their nations either. After that, who knows? There could be a points systems like Australia maybe? If we left the EU there would have to be vast negotiations on loads of issues not just immigration.

 

When push comes to shove I'm almost certainly going to vote to remain, and there undoubtedly will be loads of racists voting for out. But I'm uncomfortable tarring everyone who has an issue the same way and similarly I don't think they are all stupid.

 

I said earlier in the thread that I don't think the EU will last long term in it's current form and I'm sticking by that. The allocation of refugees over Europe, another possible crash for the Euro, resentment for austerity politics in southern European countries, I think it's all going to blow up sooner or later.

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WTF are you talking about?

I am not for one minute suggesting shutting our borders is the right thing to do or a sensible thing but merely suggesting even sensible rational people can have legitimate concerns about unrestricted immigration and its effect upon the labour market and public services.

Labeling them as racist makes you look the fool.

 

If someone is arguing that British people have a divine right to a job over Polish people, then sorry, but that person is a racist.

 

Everyone's talking about "concerns", "effects". Nobody has been able to come up with any, except some anecdotal stories about how their unskilled mates failed to cut the mustard in a 21st century economy.

 

Although the term "unrestricted immigration" is probably the single most idiotc one in the whole debate. People not realising that just because hundreds of millions of people have the right to live and work here, it doesn't mean that hundreds of millions of people will exercise that right.

 

We do not have "unrestricted immigration". Immigration is already restricted by availabilty of work, housing, money. The idea that 20 million Poles are going to rock up in Dover tomorrow just because they can is ignorant and cretinous.

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Did I fuck. I think Europe is fine. I've no problem with it. I can however see how people could have concerns.

You know I believe it is called thinking.

 

Well my apologies for assuming you sounded like a Kipper, it's hard to tell these days, especially when people are so against migrants etc. 

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You do realise that just because someone makes a complaint it does not mean that anything actually happened to them? Despite CCTV and the fact everyone has a mobile phone there is not one video showing any sexual harassment.

 

I'm not saying nothing happened, far from it, there is never any smoke without fire.

 

I believe women did have their arse felt as they walked past a group of pissed up cunts. Some may have been subjected to being groped more seriously, fact is one woman was raped. However, in such circumstances people exaggerate the situation, especially in today's society where they want to post some shit on social media platforms and have a shit load of dick heads giving them solace. Maybe the complaints were made by people who have an anti immigrant agenda, there are enough stories doing the rounds over here that people have admitted to making complaints up. I dare say more women across Germany/The UK/ Sweden have their arse felt on a Saturday night by some pissed up dick head thinking he can do what he wants. More fights being caused by the dick heads who think violence is part of life, violent attacks/murders being caused due to what ever reason. But hey ho, one incident supposedly involving migrants is used as a baton to beat the anti immigrant drum.

 

I'm in no way trying to make up excuses for the bunch of retards (regardless of nationality) who gathered at the Köln train station to get pissed and cause havoc with fireworks and obviously SOME who took things too far regarding women. I do however find it a bit far fetched that so many women claim to have been groped etc when there is fuck all evidence of it actually happening on such a massive scale. Seriously, if it had happened there would be at least some footage from CCTV or someone's mobile phone etc. All there is to see on the footage available is a bunch of cunts acting like cunts, being rowdy and setting fireworks off.

 

When you look at these videos you will not see that many African people present, despite the fact many say the majority were African and Arabic nationality. It is clear that a lot look like they have Arabic nationality. Fact is there are a lot of Eastern Europeans who have the same complexion as Arabic or Asian people, especially those with Romany/Gypsy roots.

 

The coverage in the UK is pointed at the people of the UK and has an agenda. Certain facts and indeed important facts as I have just stated have been left out. If you want to strike fear into people then this is the usual lopsided journalism/reporting which they use, it is not the first time and is used in all sorts of incidents to portray a different picture.

 

Look at the London riots, looting, buildings ablaze, police under attack etc etc.......Not the first massive riot in the UK and it certainly won't be the last, who gets the blame from the Worlds media? Yeah, the blacks....even though footage of those riots showed all sorts of nationalities involved.

This is the type of shit that can happen when political correct nonsense brushes shit like this under the carpet. I'm sure when rumours started all them years ago on the below plenty of people bullshited the rumours as right wing scaremongering.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

 

If I could be arsed I could search away and find plenty of rape/sexual assault stories from all over Europe linked to migrants (which i'm sure all exaggerated by the media) its Friday night though and as has been pointed out this is supposed to be about voting in or out of the EU.

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