Quantcast
Should the UK remain a member of the EU - Page 408 - GF - General Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content
Anny Road

Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

307 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      250
    • No
      57


Recommended Posts

How do you know if it's the "best possible deal" if the details aren't disclosed?  How are you able to proclaim it as a success story in circumstances where the government won't disclose anything about it apart from the good parts? 

 

I never said this was. I am confident that it's a great outcome.

 

The non-disclosure of the details is, I believe, being used mischievously by the Remain camp and is a red-herring. Unless I've missed a Brexiteer (in the media) complaining about the announcement, no prominent Brexiteer has complained.   The issue seems to be another anti-Brexit stick with which to beat the government with.

 

As those complaining about not knowing the details know or should know, details of government conversations with industry are sometimes commercially sensitive. Given what negotiations are coming up in the next two years, those details quite likely are even more sensitive.

 

To put it back to you, are you not happy that thousands of UK jobs have been secured as has many millions of pounds worth of exports? Why would anyone view such an announcement as not a success? (For the avoidance of doubt and preventing an argument, I am not saying YOU don't.  I haven't trawled all your posts on the issue because I'm not that sad. You may well view it as a success, you may not - I don't know but I would like to know)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said this was. I am confident that it's a great outcome.

 

The non-disclosure of the details is, I believe, being used mischievously by the Remain camp and is a red-herring. Unless I've missed a Brexiteer (in the media) complaining about the announcement, no prominent Brexiteer has complained.   The issue seems to be another anti-Brexit stick with which to beat the government with.

 

As those complaining about not knowing the details know or should know, details of government conversations with industry are sometimes commercially sensitive. Given what negotiations are coming up in the next two years, those details quite likely are even more sensitive.

 

To put it back to you, are you not happy that thousands of UK jobs have been secured as has many millions of pounds worth of exports? Why would anyone view such an announcement as not a success? (For the avoidance of doubt and preventing an argument, I am not saying YOU don't.  I haven't trawled all your posts on the issue because I'm not that sad. You may well view it as a success, you may not - I don't know but I would like to know)

 

I'm happy about the jobs (except that they're for Leave-voting fucking Mackems).  I just think it's reasonable to expect a bit of transparency.  Without knowing what incentives were offered, or not as the case may be, it's impossible to conclude whether it's in the best interests of the UK or Nissan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd advise you to pause from eating crisps and picking your nose to take some deep breaths but as I realised years ago with you Stronty, you are well past saving. If there's one person on this whole forum who deserves no luck, it's you because you're an awful human being.

 

I'll take human being over the subhuman piece of filth and detritus that you are.

 

To be called an awful human being by someone who has hitched their flag to every cretinously evil policy going, from capital punishment and inhumane treatment of prisoners, to opposition to women's reproductive rights and gay adoption, must break some kind of world record for irony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy about the jobs (except that they're for Leave-voting fucking Mackems).  I just think it's reasonable to expect a bit of transparency.  Without knowing what incentives were offered, or not as the case may be, it's impossible to conclude whether it's in the best interests of the UK or Nissan.

 

I take your point about the conclusion to a point (if you know what I mean..?!)  Beyond that point I would say that the 'deal', 'arrangement', 'assurances' - whatever someone wanted to call it - would have to be massively impactive on the public purse or on government policy for the good side of the announcement to be outweighed by the bad or to even come close to outweighing it.

 

By that I mean on the one hand we have thousands of jobs secured with new ones being created plus new ones for support and supply industries plus millions of pounds worth of new exports in addition to the many many millions of pounds worth of current Nissan exports.

 

On the other hand and taking a possible 'bad' scenario, the government has promised millions of pounds to Nissan - delivered by lawful means one would surely assume - to stay in the UK and those millions were not recouped from UK tariffs (can't think why not but just for the sake of argument) so were simply a cost to the taxpayer.

 

Even if the above were true, why would it be bad? Pretty much everyone on here slates the Tories from the 80s for not supporting industries that later went to the wall.  Well, here we have a Tory government taking action to stop an industry from leaving the UK.  No matter how much someone hates the Tories, surely that person should be pleased to see government acting to protect and secure British industry and British jobs? I don't get why those who criticise the lack of government action 3 decades ago criticise this government action just because they're not privvy to the fine detail - IF there is any.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take human being over the subhuman piece of filth and detritus that you are.

 

To be called an awful human being by someone who has hitched their flag to every cretinously evil policy going, from capital punishment and inhumane treatment of prisoners, to opposition to women's reproductive rights and gay adoption, must break some kind of world record for irony.

 

Women's reproduction rights? Remind me what that one was please young man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you're saying you do give a fuck now? What happened mate? Why change your mind to a polar opposite view?

 

You're very stressed and angry. So is SD. Anyone who responds to others' posts so angrily is stressed.

 

Seriously mate, you need to take some deep breaths before you post. You'll feel better. Breathing technique can help with a lot of things. Try it.

 

 

There's a big wide world outside of the EU where lots of countries do very nicely indeed. 

 

Anyone who says we NEED to be a member of the EU is lying.

 

Anyone who says millions of jobs DEPEND on EU membership is lying.  Jobs depend on trade and there is not a single trading partner in the EU who will trade any less with us if we leave.

 

For me it is simple: Do I want to remain in this political union or not? The answer is 'No'.

 

Footnote for the fucking idiots - this does not make me racist, xenophobic or a 'little Englander', whatever the fuck that is anyway.

 

^

Your very first post on this topic.

 

So excuse me if I ignore your condescending hypocritical advice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take human being over the subhuman piece of filth and detritus that you are.

 

To be called an awful human being by someone who has hitched their flag to every cretinously evil policy going, from capital punishment and inhumane treatment of prisoners, to opposition to women's reproductive rights and gay adoption, must break some kind of world record for irony.

 

You need to look at many of your own posts about what you would do to and wish for other people. You then need to look up the definition of the word 'irony'.

 

While you're there, look up the words 'bogey' and 'snot' so you can finally realise what that stuff is encrusted over your fingertips.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bad thing is the lack of transparency.

 

It's also bad if we have to pay a fortune just to keep the manufacturers we already had, because 17 million people were stupid enough to vote to end one of the most important competitive advantages that attracted those manufacturers to the UK in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

Your very first post on this topic.

 

So excuse me if I ignore your condescending hypocritical advice. 

 

Check some of the many hundreds of posts in this thread, count how many times those words are thrown around and you'll see I was proved right.

 

So, why do you now give a fuck when previously you didn't?  Please take a deep breath or two before posting - it'll help you compose yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The two most likely things offered to Nissan are either a lower corporation tax, which isn't great unless you are a big fan of more austerity and cuts, or perhaps more likely a promise that we have no intention whatsoever to actually leave the EU custom union.

 

Vince Cable reckons it's the latter

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/28/vince-cable-assurances-nissan-uk-customs-union-tariff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bad thing is the lack of transparency.

 

It's also bad if we have to pay a fortune just to keep the manufacturers we already had, because 17 million people were stupid enough to vote to end one of the most important competitive advantages that attracted those manufacturers to the UK in the first place.

 

For reasons of commercial sensitivity, sometimes a lack of transparency is necessary. That is a principle throughout the whole world of business.

 

Your "stupid" comment just makes me roll my eyes at you. Yet again. To be fair to you, you've got lots of company.

 

In fact, one of your earliest posts was that you intended to "look a lot more deeply into both arguments" before voting. Unless prior to making that post you were COMPLETELY ignorant of the issues, this means at one point you weren't sure if you yourself was going to be "stupid" or xenephobic or racist or fascist or swivel-eyed and all the other insults thrown at Leave voters. It means you at least considered the idea of taking control of immigration. Racist.

 

Good to kind of have you on board mate, even if you were only thinking about it for a while.

 

 

And I'm looking at you as well, Jairzinho. You were in favour of Leave if only we didn't have an "awful government". You thought the MAIN argument to stay was because we had a tory government. Doesn't feel that way now from your current posts.

 

I'm trying to resist using the word 'hypocritical'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check some of the many hundreds of posts in this thread, count how many times those words are thrown around and you'll see I was proved right.

 

So, why do you now give a fuck when previously you didn't?  Please take a deep breath or two before posting - it'll help you compose yourself.

 

Proved right? That's open to interpretation on what you have previously posted.

 

Where have I posted that I give a fuck now? I simply believed before the vote that the UK leaving the EU was a bad idea, nothing has changed on that front since the result of said vote. It's called having an opinion and discussing a subject which is very much still in the news. 

 

I've explained above why I'd rather not take your condescending hypocritical advice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For reasons of commercial sensitivity, sometimes a lack of transparency is necessary. That is a principle throughout the whole world of business.

 

Your "stupid" comment just makes me roll my eyes at you. Yet again. To be fair to you, you've got lots of company.

 

In fact, one of your earliest posts was that you intended to "look a lot more deeply into both arguments" before voting. Unless prior to making that post you were COMPLETELY ignorant of the issues, this means at one point you weren't sure if you yourself was going to be "stupid" or xenephobic or racist or fascist or swivel-eyed and all the other insults thrown at Leave voters. It means you at least considered the idea of taking control of immigration. Racist.

 

Good to kind of have you on board mate, even if you were only thinking about it for a while.

 

 

And I'm looking at you as well, Jairzinho. You were in favour of Leave if only we didn't have an "awful government". You thought the MAIN argument to stay was because we had a tory government. Doesn't feel that way now from your current posts.

 

I'm trying to resist using the word 'hypocritical'.

I took the time to look more closely at the arguments for and against leaving. I didn't waste time looking at how to "control" immigration: I've long since come to understand that immigration is a public and private benefit and that any attempts to arbitrarily set limits on the number of immigrants will fail - and rightly so, because such limits are both inhuman and economically counter-productive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Proved right? That's open to interpretation on what you have previously posted.

 

Where have I posted that I give a fuck now? I simply believed before the vote that the UK leaving the EU was a bad idea, nothing has changed on that front since the result of said vote. It's called having an opinion and discussing a subject which is very much still in the news. 

 

I've explained above why I'd rather not take your condescending hypocritical advice. 

 

Congratulations on being less abusive. You obviously took those breaths - it DOES work!!

 

You didn't simply believe that. You said "TBH, I couldn't give a fuck if the UK left the EU". That is an aggressive indifference to the issue.  You're still aggressive but definitely not indifferent. Again I ask, why not? What's changed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took the time to look more closely at the arguments for and against leaving. I didn't waste time looking at how to "control" immigration: I've long since come to understand that immigration is a public and private benefit and that any attempts to arbitrarily set limits on the number of immigrants will fail - and rightly so, because such limits are both inhuman and economically counter-productive.

 

Not having that. You clearly consider yourself far more enlightened than any "stupid" Leave voter. Yet, it seems, you weren't sure yourself only a few months ago if you too were also "stupid". And, let's face it, racist, swivel-eyed, fascist, thick, cunt, etc...

 

I respect the 'you' from a few months ago who, being unsure how he would vote, wanted to look into the arguments from both sides even though the core principles of both sides were bare and obvious. Maybe you meant 'look into' the finer detail I don't know because you SURELY couldn't have meant those core principles that even the most stupid of the stupid was aware of.

 

Fast forward to you now and you are full of contempt.  Do you hold any contempt for the 'you' of a few months ago who was contemplating voting for Leave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately it's an article behind a paywall so I can't post it, but the FT are running a story for which they say the source was two people involved in the talks with Nissan. They say Nissan threatened to move production to its French and Spanish factories, and close Sunderland, unless it was 'guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations on being less abusive. You obviously took those breaths - it DOES work!!

 

You didn't simply believe that. You said "TBH, I couldn't give a fuck if the UK left the EU". That is an aggressive indifference to the issue.  You're still aggressive but definitely not indifferent. Again I ask, why not? What's changed?

 

Congratulations on still being both condescending and hypocritical. The condescending tone has been etched into the majority of your posts over the last few pages. You obviously don't want to defend my accusation of you being a hypocrite, kind of hard though when it is there to see in black and white, so best just to ignore it eh?  

 

You do realise it is possible to hold a view that you couldn't give a fuck about the UK leaving the EU yet express an opinion on why you think it is a bad idea? I've had the same stance from the beginning, fair enough if you don't agree with my views, no skin off my arse. Your condescending tone against anyone who has a difference of opinion to that of your own just shows what a massive twat you are. Oops, I called you a twat. *takes 10 deep breaths*.....nah, you're still a massive twat. 

 

One last thing, you need to get off that soapbox you are standing on, the "I'm a better person than you" mask you are wearing can't hide the fact that you are as guilty as anybody else as far as the mudslinging goes. I have a feeling you'll still carry on believing that though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately it's an article behind a paywall so I can't post it, but the FT are running a story for which they say the source was two people involved in the talks with Nissan. They say Nissan threatened to move production to its French and Spanish factories, and close Sunderland, unless it was 'guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe.'

0b337f408b7078544c38ac87cd40d3d2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations on still being both condescending and hypocritical. The condescending tone has been etched into the majority of your posts over the last few pages. You obviously don't want to defend my accusation of you being a hypocrite, kind of hard though when it is there to see in black and white, so best just to ignore it eh?  

 

You do realise it is possible to hold a view that you couldn't give a fuck about the UK leaving the EU yet express an opinion on why you think it is a bad idea? I've had the same stance from the beginning, fair enough if you don't agree with my views, no skin off my arse. Your condescending tone against anyone who has a difference of opinion to that of your own just shows what a massive twat you are. Oops, I called you a twat. *takes 10 deep breaths*.....nah, you're still a massive twat. 

 

One last thing, you need to get off that soapbox you are standing on, the "I'm a better person than you" mask you are wearing can't hide the fact that you are as guilty as anybody else as far as the mudslinging goes. I have a feeling you'll still carry on believing that though.

 

For someone who doesn't give a fuck you tone your posts like someone who very much does give a fuck. Although I can't recall too many of your posts that actually put your own views across. I have however noticed far more of your posts that aggressively insult others' opinions.

 

I didn't defend it - read my post again carefully. I refuted it.  It only took me a few words to refute because it was easy to refute.

 

I'll tell you what - you post the worst of my posts then I'll post the worst of yours and we'll see who is the most abusive, vile and obnoxious.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I'm happy about the jobs (except that they're for Leave-voting fucking Mackems). I just think it's reasonable to expect a bit of transparency. Without knowing what incentives were offered, or not as the case may be, it's impossible to conclude whether it's in the best interests of the UK or Nissan.

Well the deal is clearly in the interests of Nissan. They would make commercial deals only, their motivation is paying their shareholders, so it would seem certain whatever is hidden suits them. If it's in the best interests of the UK, we'll clearly we can only know that when we know how much we've had to pay to keep those jobs.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it's an article behind a paywall so I can't post it, but the FT are running a story for which they say the source was two people involved in the talks with Nissan. They say Nissan threatened to move production to its French and Spanish factories, and close Sunderland, unless it was 'guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe.'

And this will be the first of many of these battles. You have to wonder how we can fund everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

And this will be the first of many of these battles. You have to wonder how we can fund everyone.

By cutting benefits and the NHS most likely

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Importing costs for Typhoo Tea have gone up 50% because of the pound's woes. Expect the cost of your cuppa to go up across the board as I don't think tea is grown in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Importing costs for Typhoo Tea have gone up 50% because of the pound's woes. Expect the cost of your cuppa to go up across the board as I don't think tea is grown in the UK.

That's a blow to the idea that tea and jam exports will drive the nation's economy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×