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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

277 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      224
    • No
      53


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I'd love to know what you find horrifying about Germany, what have you seen, or do you mean you are just believing everything the media feed you?

How do you get your views though, mate? How do you know what's happening in other parts of Germany or what's going on in England or anywhere else in the world? You must watch/read about it somewhere. Even the most sceptical of people must form some of their views on the media they watch/read.

 

That's not to say I don't think the people who form all of their views from the Daily Mail aren't daft but a lot of people will view a lot of different sources, get a lot of information from the vast amount of outlets on Twitter etc...

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We need a North European alliance without the French, call it Asgard, divvie up the oil and let's get this show on the road. 

 

The elite would be up in arms, think of all the upper class food and drink they would miss out on if we fucked off the French. 

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How do you get your views though, mate? How do you know what's happening in other parts of Germany or what's going on in England or anywhere else in the world? You must watch/read about it somewhere. Even the most sceptical of people must form some of their views on the media they watch/read.

 

That's not to say I don't think the people who form all of their views from the Daily Mail aren't daft but a lot of people will view a lot of different sources, get a lot of information from the vast amount of outlets on Twitter etc...

 

You tend to get a better picture when you live in the country which is questioned, local press, local Police reports or information gained by friends in the police force etc. The media from the UK for example are bound to put a twist on things to suit their pro or Anti EU agenda.

 

Germany has incidents like any other country, but they are nowhere near as widespread or as bad as certain sections of society are making out. It all boils down to migrants and those who are against them,  they fear a backlash based on a few incidents which are blown out of proportion by racist cunts to push their agenda through fear, and in doing so cause people to act in the same way . There has been a shit load more incidents against migrants but the majority of media outlets conveniently ignore those or give it very little coverage. 

 

Twitter can be good for breaking news within a certain area, especially by people giving an accurate account of what is going on around them, it is also widely open to those wishing to spread propaganda. Anyone taking twitter as their bible as far as accurate news goes deserve all the paranoia they get.

 

TBH, I couldn't give a fuck if the UK left the EU, it will have very little effect on my life, I just think they would be better off staying in. Those voting to leave will be the first to moan if it all goes tits up. 

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You tend to get a better picture when you live in the country which is questioned, local press, local Police reports or information gained by friends in the police force etc. The media from the UK for example are bound to put a twist on things to suit their pro or Anti EU agenda.

 

Germany has incidents like any other country, but they are nowhere near as widespread or as bad as certain sections of society are making out. It all boils down to migrants and those who are against them, they fear a backlash based on a few incidents which are blown out of proportion by racist cunts to push their agenda through fear, and in doing so cause people to act in the same way . There has been a shit load more incidents against migrants but the majority of media outlets conveniently ignore those or give it very little coverage.

 

Twitter can be good for breaking news within a certain area, especially by people giving an accurate account of what is going on around them, it is also widely open to those wishing to spread propaganda. Anyone taking twitter as their bible as far as accurate news goes deserve all the paranoia they get.

 

TBH, I couldn't give a fuck if the UK left the EU, it will have very little effect on my life, I just think they would be better off staying in. Those voting to leave will be the first to moan if it all goes tits up.

Do you think the incident in Cologne for example was blown out of proportion? Or is a common event in Europe? It's not just right wing outlets reporting it, Der Spiegel in English and other German based English language outlets have reported it extensively.

 

You live in Germany so you'll obviously be up on events there more than most but it doesn't mean people haven't read up on things themselves from multiple places. You often have opinions on events happening in England which is fine and I agree with you a lot, just because you don't live here though doesn't mean you can't form your own opinion on issues here.

 

But my main point is on the media. I agree they are a massive problem, one of the biggest we face in fact, but the truth of the matter is absolutely everyone gets their opinions shaped to varying degrees by the media. You can't just discount anything said in the media if you don't like it. No one is saying use Twitter as their bible, but every national and local news station has a presence on there and often break the news there first so it would be foolish to discount it. It's a very useful tool.

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Do you think the incident in Cologne for example was blown out of proportion? Or is a common event in Europe? It's not just right wing outlets reporting it, Der Spiegel in English and other German based English language outlets have reported it extensively.

 

You live in Germany so you'll obviously be up on events there more than most but it doesn't mean people haven't read up on things themselves from multiple places. You often have opinions on events happening in England which is fine and I agree with you a lot, just because you don't live here though doesn't mean you can't form your own opinion on issues here.

 

But my main point is on the media. I agree they are a massive problem, one of the biggest we face in fact, but the truth of the matter is absolutely everyone gets their opinions shaped to varying degrees by the media. You can't just discount anything said in the media if you don't like it. No one is saying use Twitter as their bible, but every national and local news station has a presence on there and often break the news there first so it would be foolish to discount it. It's a very useful tool.

 

The incident in Köln was without doubt a sad day for all concerned. What the media fail to tell you is that the majority of those involved where not migrants who had just arrived but those already settled here. There were loads of Albanians and eastern Europeans and obviously some of the new younger migrants who had just arrived. Köln is one of the worst major cities in Germany as far as crime goes and the police force their have come under scrutiny for failing on quite a few occasions. Quite a few already had German nationality and were even born here. 

 

Take the size of Germany and the amount of migrants accepted. Then look at the one major incident and a few smaller ones, not exactly something to worry about escalating into a major problem as some would have you believe. As I said in my original reply, incidents against migrants are a hell of a lot higher. 

 

The City I live in Bielefeld has a high number of migrants and apart from one incident also on NYE there has been nothing, plus the majority of those involved in said incident were Albanians. Talking to my mate who is a pensioned Criminal police officer, his brother and a few mates who still serve in the criminal police force at various levels and lastly my daughters boyfriends father who is high up in the criminal police service they all paint the same picture. The vast amount of incidents are against the migrants, those causing a lot of unrest are the far right. The majority of people arrested for causing trouble as far as the migrants go are Albanian, Estonian and other Eastern European migrants who have been here for some considerable time. 

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The incident in Köln was without doubt a sad day for all concerned. What the media fail to tell you is that the majority of those involved where not migrants who had just arrived but those already settled here. There were loads of Albanians and eastern Europeans and obviously some of the new younger migrants who had just arrived. Köln is one of the worst major cities in Germany as far as crime goes and the police force their have come under scrutiny for failing on quite a few occasions. Quite a few already had German nationality and were even born here.

 

Take the size of Germany and the amount of migrants accepted. Then look at the one major incident and a few smaller ones, not exactly something to worry about escalating into a major problem as some would have you believe. As I said in my original reply, incidents against migrants are a hell of a lot higher.

 

The City I live in Bielefeld has a high number of migrants and apart from one incident also on NYE there has been nothing, plus the majority of those involved in said incident were Albanians. Talking to my mate who is a pensioned Criminal police officer, his brother and a few mates who still serve in the criminal police force at various levels and lastly my daughters boyfriends father who is high up in the criminal police service they all paint the same picture. The vast amount of incidents are against the migrants, those causing a lot of unrest are the far right. The majority of people arrested for causing trouble as far as the migrants go are Albanian, Estonian and other Eastern European migrants who have been here for some considerable time.

Ok, so if the majority or a lot of them are Eastern European migrants, or German citizens then where have you got this information from? Anecdotal or from other media outlets? Didn't the chief of police there get sacked for trying to cover it up?

 

Like it or not but people will have to form their views on events from the media unless they know people who live in the cities/countries where events happen. You get people on here from Australia and America and all over Europe commenting on UK political matters. Lots of us here talk about the US elections. They must be informed by the media.

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This is from the BBC who you might think has an agenda, though I don't think they've got an anti migrant one, but it quotes a German minister. Is this wrong then? I'm not being sarky I'm genuinely interested if there is something that challenges this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

 

The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African and Arab, an official report says.

 

Nineteen individuals are currently under investigation by the state police in connection with the attacks, NRW's interior ministry says in a report (in German), none of them German nationals.

 

Those 19 suspects include 14 men from Morocco and Algeria. Ten of the suspects are asylum seekers, nine of whom arrived in Germany after September 2015.

The other nine are possibly in Germany illegally, the interior ministry says.

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Ok, so if the majority or a lot of them are Eastern European migrants, or German citizens then where have you got this information from? Anecdotal or from other media outlets? Didn't the chief of police there get sacked for trying to cover it up?

 

Like it or not but people will have to form their views on events from the media unless they know people who live in the cities/countries where events happen. You get people on here from Australia and America and all over Europe commenting on UK political matters. Lots of us here talk about the US elections. They must be informed by the media.

I've already said mate, the police themselves. Not from Köln either. Also people who were present have said the same, weather their accounts of the incident is correct or believable is open to scrutiny. The incident which happened in Bielefeld, which was very small in comparison to that in Köln caused less hassle than the far right groups gathering there a few days later. 

 

Not everyone get's their information from the mainstream media, certain topics yes, but not all. 

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I've already said mate, the police themselves. Not from Köln either. Also people who were present have said the same, weather their accounts of the incident is correct or believable is open to scrutiny. The incident which happened in Bielefeld, which was very small in comparison to that in Köln caused less hassle than the far right groups gathering there a few days later.

 

Not everyone get's their information from the mainstream media, certain topics yes, but not all.

See my above post.

 

My view is all media is biased. Russia today is just as biased as the Daily Mail, The Guardian is biased, The Telegraph is; it all is.

 

Reading a variety of outlets to try and get a grasp of something is the best bet but I just don't like it when someone's opinion is discounted because they ' buy into he media ' as we all do that to some degree.

 

Like I said earlier if you just get all your information from the Mail then you're an idiot and I've no problem with people saying that but I think on here most people are a bit more savvy.

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This is from the BBC who you might think has an agenda, though I don't think they've got an anti migrant one, but it quotes a German minister. Is this wrong then? I'm not being sarky I'm genuinely interested if there is something that challenges this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

 

The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African and Arab, an official report says.

 

Nineteen individuals are currently under investigation by the state police in connection with the attacks, NRW's interior ministry says in a report (in German), none of them German nationals.

 

Those 19 suspects include 14 men from Morocco and Algeria. Ten of the suspects are asylum seekers, nine of whom arrived in Germany after September 2015.

The other nine are possibly in Germany illegally, the interior ministry says.

 

The report which you can click on within that BBC page is just the interior minister for NRW which Köln is part of. 

 

From over a 1000 people they conveniently investigate 18 of them to come to their conclusions. The same as the BBC were interviewing a few girls who said they were shit scared and sexually harassed themselves. Plenty of interviews on German media from a larger section who said despite the incident they aren't frightened as nothing happened to them. Same goes for reports of the majority of people not being African/Arabic origin. If you look at the original footage it is clear that the Black people present were in a huge minority, funny how the minister for NRW says they were in a majority. Just trying to cover his own arse as he is under pressure himself due to the handling of the incident. Initial reports out of Köln/Germany stated it was unclear as to what nationality those involved where, quite predictable that after over a month the interior minister for NRW and those around him have pulled up a whole 18 names they are looking into, over 750 individuals made criminal reports to the Police, well done BBC for picking out 500 from thin air! 

 

PS. The line "Quite a few already had German nationality and were even born here. " I edited in after posting and it should have been added after the Bielefeld incident and not the Köln one. 

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So it's a conspiracy now? After initially trying to cover up what happened, which the police did by saying New years eve passed off peacefully, they are now framing the few North Africans/Arabs there? I've yet to see any reporting from anywhere that says the majority of people there weren't of North African ethnicity. Even The Guardian, who despite there faults are massively pro immigration, reported the same thing.

 

Sorry mate but I'm not convinced and I don't think it's just the right wing media spreading this either.

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So it's a conspiracy now? After initially trying to cover up what happened, which the police did by saying New years eve passed off peacefully, they are now framing the few North Africans/Arabs there? I've yet to see any reporting from anywhere that says the majority of people there weren't of North African ethnicity. Even The Guardian, who despite there faults are massively pro immigration, reported the same thing.

 

Sorry mate but I'm not convinced and I don't think it's just the right wing media spreading this either.

 

So just from looking at footage they conveniently just pull out 18 to suit nationality agenda and them not having German nationality? The other 900+???? Obviously they either had no fucking idea about their nationality or they did and it just didn't back up their agenda to shift the blame onto migrants. These interior ministers are pissed off that certain areas which they are in charge of are being used for incoming migrants, more so than other areas. No shock that they have an agenda. Official reports from main Government are still unclear yet the BBC use the initial report from the interior minister who is under massive pressure due to fucking up the whole situation.

 

Let us see what happens. 

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So just from looking at footage they conveniently just pull out 18 to suit nationality agenda and them not having German nationality? The other 900+???? Obviously they either had no fucking idea about their nationality or they did and it just didn't back up their agenda to shift the blame onto migrants. These interior ministers are pissed off that certain areas which they are in charge of are being used for incoming migrants, more so than other areas. No shock that they have an agenda. Official reports from main Government are still unclear yet the BBC use the initial report from the interior minister who is under massive pressure due to fucking up the whole situation.

 

Let us see what happens. 

 

I think there will be a lot of forces in Germany wanting to justify their policy on the refugees, and if they could arrest some white Germans for the offences and show they weren't all migrants they I think they would.

 

The nature of the offences, surrounding women and groping/robbing them is called Taharrush I believe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taharrush_jamai and doesn't seem like a common occurence in Europe.

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I think there will be a lot of forces in Germany wanting to justify their policy on the refugees, and if they could arrest some white Germans for the offences and show they weren't all migrants they I think they would.

 

The nature of the offences, surrounding women and groping/robbing them is called Taharrush I believe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taharrush_jamai and doesn't seem like a common occurence in Europe.

 

I'm not on about white people being involved mate, I'm on about the blame being put on the refugees/migrants coming over now or awaiting asylum etc. As I said, in the Bielefeld incident which also happened on the same day the majority of those present were of Albanian nationality and a lot of them already have German nationality now.

 

I'm sure both sides have an agenda and information is skewed to suit either side, however, the Köln incident is a massive fuck up and the UK media seem intent on reporting just on the one side, it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact the UK have taken in the least migrants during this awful situation and are aiming to take in as little as possible, no siree.

 

Strike fear into the people and they are then seen to be doing what the majority of them want. They can then save money and give it out on other things, like their back fucking pockets. No surprise that the Tory cunts who want to stay in the EU are trying to get things changed within the EU, mainly to do with Migrants/Benefits and the cost to the country. They just use the what is best for the UK people line as a guise to the fact it is all down to money, the less they have the less they can cream off for them and their buddies. 

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One last thing, I'm going to turn this around on its head. 

 

What instead of the UK holing an in/out referendum the rest of Europe were to hold a referendum about letting the UK stay in? No doubt a lot of people who at this current time want out would have a hissy fit about it. 

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The incident in Köln was without doubt a sad day for all concerned. What the media fail to tell you is that the majority of those involved where not migrants who had just arrived but those already settled here. There were loads of Albanians and eastern Europeans and obviously some of the new younger migrants who had just arrived. Köln is one of the worst major cities in Germany as far as crime goes and the police force their have come under scrutiny for failing on quite a few occasions. Quite a few already had German nationality and were even born here.

 

Take the size of Germany and the amount of migrants accepted. Then look at the one major incident and a few smaller ones, not exactly something to worry about escalating into a major problem as some would have you believe. As I said in my original reply, incidents against migrants are a hell of a lot higher.

 

The City I live in Bielefeld has a high number of migrants and apart from one incident also on NYE there has been nothing, plus the majority of those involved in said incident were Albanians. Talking to my mate who is a pensioned Criminal police officer, his brother and a few mates who still serve in the criminal police force at various levels and lastly my daughters boyfriends father who is high up in the criminal police service they all paint the same picture. The vast amount of incidents are against the migrants, those causing a lot of unrest are the far right. The majority of people arrested for causing trouble as far as the migrants go are Albanian, Estonian and other Eastern European migrants who have been here for some considerable time.

Women being sexualy assaulted on mass is nothing to worry about, ok!

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Women being sexualy assaulted on mass is nothing to worry about, ok!

I dont know much about these incidents in all honesty but when I see the words 'en masse' I would obviously like to see some evidence as 'en masse' sounds like a scene from zombie movie but with women being groped and raped instead of bitten or infected.

My point is,is it really sexual assaults 'en masse' or not?

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Yes, it is apparently well documented. Mostly robbed and groped (about 3:1), a couple of reported rapes. In Cologne, about 700 assaults, I thin about 300 were sexual (mostly heavy groping). Groups of 10 to 15 men on one woman, in a circle, then the next victim would come along or be isolated from a small group of passers by or New Year's Eve revelers. From a large group of several hundred gathered near the main railway station. Is this en masse enough for you?

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