Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You cannot pay workers £1.80 an hour in the UK, it is against our law.

 

You meanwhile are championing a political system which allows the exploitation of (mainly) overseas workers. 

Different laws for maritime workers (and exceptions if you provide payment "in kind" like accommodation and meals). What P&O did was perfectly in compliance with UK law, passed by the UK Government. It's why they have faced no legal repercussions and why the Government had to promise to bring in a new law - the Harbours (Seafarers Remuneration) Bill - to try to extend the minimum wage to seafarers.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What are you talking about?

 

There is no influx (EU- coordinated or otherwise) of EU workers.

 

Ask the workers who lost jobs to East European workers at P&O ports across the country. They will put you straight on that.

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Remember when free movement ended in 2020 and then you spent the next two years arguing that it was good that it ended? That happened. That really happened. It contributed to the shortages of goods (and inevitable inflation) that you also argued was a good thing.

 

EU workers being able to find work in any one of 27 countries is very easily defensible; the completely unrelated issue of what P&O did isn't defensible and nobody here defends it.

 You are not just defending P&O you are defending the system the EU has created which let's these low paid worker situations flourish.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Negged for lying.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Negged for lying.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/there-were-grown-men-in-tears-po-crews-stunned-by-sackings

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/there-were-grown-men-in-tears-po-crews-stunned-by-sackings

 

 

What's your point?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Reminder, if it's needed, that there are 27 countries in the EU.

 

The UK, India, the Philippines and Ukraine are not members of the EU.

[cloggypop]

Brexit = jarg MDMA

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/08/brexit-helping-cause-harmful-increase-in-fake-ecstasy-study-warns?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1654665061

[Gnasher]

9 hours ago, cloggypop said:

Brexit = jarg MDMA

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/08/brexit-helping-cause-harmful-increase-in-fake-ecstasy-study-warns?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1654665061

That changes it all for me. I'm now a remainer.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Government consultation on one of those lovely Brexit bonuses.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/choice-on-units-of-measurement-markings-and-sales

 

[skend04]

 

Russia have had sanctions put on them whereas the Brexiteers put sanctions on its own country. Marvelous.

[Gnasher]

46 minutes ago, skend04 said:

 

Russia have had sanctions put on them whereas the Brexiteers put sanctions on its own country. Marvelous.

Can't read it as I've used up my two free articles, although the sub heading gives a couple of clues.

 

Cummings is definitely being proved right when he predicted a few years ago  'the government will get free passes as every failure will be put at the door of Brexit'

 

Also the Brexit excuse does not tally up with Britain's high standing last year, Norways (not in EU) high position this year and none of the top three countries being a member of the EU.

 

My guess on the cause of Britain's dismal showing is a Chancellor who's investments in Britain amount to zero, who saddles the country with regressive taxation and who places his own image over pesky little things like growing the economy. Then add in a Prime Minister who's done precisely nothing for British business these past 28 months other than attend Peppa Pig World and turn up at a few illegal parties, and get caught.

 

Don't give the Tories a get out of jail card, they haven’t passed go to earn it.

[Bruce Spanner]

53 minutes ago, skend04 said:

 

Russia have had sanctions put on them whereas the Brexiteers put sanctions on its own country. Marvelous.

 

That can’t be right as Alex, Rees-Mogg and Raab all said we’re the superest, bestest, most amazing world beating economy for growth, no?

 

Its not like they’d cherry pick lies for fools to parrot as justification for this fucking farce as the UK’s prosperity, standing and future are sold to the lowest bidder, is it?

 

Just doesn’t make sense for them to do so at all.

[Gnasher]

Individual countries forecast growth chart three quarters down, regional forecast near top and Europe as a whole forecast lower than the rest of the world 

 

"World Economic Outlook, April 2022: War Sets Back The Global Recovery" https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2022/04/19/world-economic-outlook-april-2022

[No2]

What's the deal with the NI protocol? It seems like the finger has been hovering over the button for a good year at least but they haven't gone through with it. Is it just another stupid bluff?

[Bruce Spanner]

4 minutes ago, No2 said:

What's the deal with the NI protocol? It seems like the finger has been hovering over the button for a good year at least but they haven't gone through with it. Is it just another stupid bluff?

 

TL:DR It breaks international law and they know it and can't risk the fall out, but can't lose face as it's the deal they, themselves, negotiated, signed off and said was the bestest ever deal, honestly.

 

The details...

 

Deep breath: Playbook has confirmed the contents of the bill that have been seeping out in reports this week.

 

It includes: A fast-track trade “green lane” for goods going from Great Britain to Northern Ireland (but not to the single market) backed up by commercial data and a trusted trader scheme … a dual regulation regime that allows firms in Northern Ireland to choose between sticking to either EU or U.K. standards for goods (with the U.K. allowing both for sale in Great Britain) meaning simpler trade on goods operating within the relevant rules. 

 

And there’s more: U.K. VAT, excise and state aid rules will apply in Northern Ireland under the plans, instead of EU rules as is the case at the moment … no role for the European Court of Justice in international dispute arbitration … and safeguards for the EU single market, including fines for businesses that fail to stick to the rules.

 

How it happened: The plan was rubber-stamped at a Cabinet committee Wednesday, although there was some last-minute wrangling ahead of the meeting when Foreign Secretary Liz Truss argued the measures should be hardened despite Downing Street having signed them off. In the end, Playbook understands she didn’t get too far with her demands, but the bid won’t harm her standing among pro-Brexit colleagues ahead of the next Conservative leadership election. 

 

ERG-onomics: The FT has heard similar, and notes that Truss was emboldened after talks with hard-line ERG members but was slapped down by Johnson, while the Times reports the PM was also in those ERG discussions.

 

The grand plan is … that the bill serves the dual purpose of 1. Fixing the issues with the protocol and 2. Showing the DUP the government is serious about fixing the protocol, in the hope the unionists agree to form an executive at Stormont and avoid a further escalation of tensions in Northern Ireland. Whether either will come to pass is for the future to decide.

 

But but but: Good luck getting the bill through parliament — especially with rebel Conservative MPs who have no qualms about sticking it to Johnson. “If it’s not defeated in the Commons it will be defeated in the Lords and we’ll just end up triggering Article 16, which we should have f*cking done in the first place,” said one government official. 

 

Meanwhile … There’s also the ongoing (and rather one-sided) debate about whether the bill will break international law. “It’s not a breach of international law until a court says it is,” one pro-Brexit former minister told Playbook. “But we need to act now and have that argument later.” The FT notes that Cabinet ministers Sunak and Gove aren’t convinced. 

 

The 4D chess version: Hitting the Brexit button and sparking a big row with Brussels might be a gamble but could be what Johnson needs to help reset his leadership, my POLITICO colleague Cristina Gallardo writes in her preview of the legislative showdown. Indeed, No. 10 aide David Canzini has told Tory special advisers Brexit should be at the top of the government’s agenda to keep voters in Leave-supporting areas engaged

[Rico1304]

I’m in trouble again for calling Frost a dickhead. I don’t mind when someone calls my brother in law a knob so no idea why he’s  so touchy. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Busy day for bad news...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/you-ve-lost-your-eu-rights-bloc-s-top-court-tells-expat-brits

 

'The European Union’s top court delivered a stark message to expat Britons hoping to cling on to the trappings of EU citizenship after Brexit: You’ve lost your rights.

 

Britain’s departure from the bloc following the 2016 referendum means its nationals residing in one of the remaining 27 member states “no longer enjoy the status of citizen of the Union,” the EU Court of Justice ruled. That means they lost rights such as being able to vote and to stand as a candidate in municipal elections. 

 

“This is an automatic consequence of the sole sovereign decision taken by the United Kingdom to withdraw from the European Union,” the Luxembourg-based court said.'

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Cummings is definitely being proved right when he predicted a few years ago  'the government will get free passes as every failure will be put at the door of Brexit'

I'm pretty sure that you were wearing a cheerleader's skirt and waving your pom-poms last year when UK growth was higher than some EU countries. You can't have it both ways.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Busy day for bad news...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/you-ve-lost-your-eu-rights-bloc-s-top-court-tells-expat-brits

 

'The European Union’s top court delivered a stark message to expat Britons hoping to cling on to the trappings of EU citizenship after Brexit: You’ve lost your rights.

 

Britain’s departure from the bloc following the 2016 referendum means its nationals residing in one of the remaining 27 member states “no longer enjoy the status of citizen of the Union,” the EU Court of Justice ruled. That means they lost rights such as being able to vote and to stand as a candidate in municipal elections. 

 

“This is an automatic consequence of the sole sovereign decision taken by the United Kingdom to withdraw from the European Union,” the Luxembourg-based court said.'

Oh dear. 

[Gnasher]

16 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'm pretty sure that you were wearing a cheerleader's skirt and waving your pom-poms last year when UK growth was higher than some EU countries. You can't have it both ways.

 

I can because i was pointing out the irrelevance. If you do hang your hat on the figures, the chart (which I've produced above, no one else has) actually shows eu countries are once again lagging behind the rest of the world.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

You know, when you have a Government who are absolutely defined by Brexit, pointing out that Brexit makes things worse really isn't letting them off the hook; if anything, it's the opposite of that.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You know, when you have a Government who are absolutely defined by Brexit, pointing out that Brexit makes things worse really isn't letting them off the hook; if anything, it's the opposite of that.

 

Put the chart up, go on let's have a look.

[Vincent Vega]

 

[Liverpool lad]

An absolute clusterfuck 

Thanks everyone for voting for this

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

Put the chart up, go on let's have a look.

Chart?