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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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14 minutes ago, No2 said:

WOW!!! Nobody seen that coming, I bet in 1500 pages nobody said the Tories would just replace the Eastern Europeans with cheaper labour from further afield and give them fuck all rights. I strongly suggest Bristol coffee man saves that extra tenner because the Tories have his replacement lined up.

 

Open goal for the Labour Party to prove the hypocrisy of the flag shaggers. 

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5 hours ago, Arniepie said:

BBC reporting that pay rises are not keeping up with inflation.

So the groups who are getting a pay rise,are still worse off,never mind the many who are not.

 

Ok. Genuine question, with the current world wide situation of fuel hikes etc do you believe inflation would not have risen if we had not left the EU?

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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Ok. Genuine question, with the current world wide situation of fuel hikes etc do you believe inflation would not have risen if we had not left the EU?

OK I'll answer for you, inflation is pretty much world wide, check out the inflation rate in Germany, Italy, USA.. 

 

I'm struggling to see your point. 

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On the subject of inflation, is Germany still in the EU?

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-inflation-hits-29-year-high-of-52/a-59968291

 

Wait till you see the way Americas inflation rate is going, bloody brexit.

 

No one told me Spain had left the EU, what other reason could their be for Spains highest inflation rate in 30 years? Bloody brexit.

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/spains-annual-inflation-jumps-to-6point7percent-at-end-of-2021.html

 

 

Oh fuck, inflation rising throughout Europe, must be brexit,

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/business/european-union-eurozone-inflation.html

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22 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Open goal for the Labour Party to prove the hypocrisy of the flag shaggers. 

Is it, though? The risk is that they will simultaneously come across as anti-immigration (thereby pissing off the Left) and anti-Brexit (thereby pissing off the Right).

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9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

The EU was/is a cunts trick.

 

Edit; unless you're into the cheap labour/exploitation game of course,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

That's not an EU issue: it's a global Capitalism issue.

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Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Is it, though? The risk is that they will simultaneously come across as anti-immigration (thereby pissing off the Left) and anti-Brexit (thereby pissing off the Right).

 

A. It's not anti immigration its anti cheap/exploitative labour.

 

B; Labour shouldn't worry about the right it should worry about the people it was set up to represent.

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2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You think the EU is not a part of global capitalism? 

I know that it's not the be all and end all of global Capitalism. I know that the UK leaving the EU solved absolutely none of the problems of global Capitalism; in fact, it made them worse (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

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31 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I know that it's not the be all and end all of global Capitalism. I know that the UK leaving the EU solved absolutely none of the problems of global Capitalism; in fact, it made them worse (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

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15 hours ago, Gnasher said:

OK I'll answer for you, inflation is pretty much world wide, check out the inflation rate in Germany, Italy, USA.. 

 

I'm struggling to see your point. 

The problem with the Brexit argument is that many people are stuck in black and white thinking. Much like the vaccination debate. The truth is there are fair arguments on both sides.

 

Taking inflation as an example. The world is largely experiencing rising inflation, so you are correct to point that out. And, as you yourself have pointed out on many occassions, Brexit has increased wages - costs which will inevitably be passed on to the consumer because that's how market forces work.

 

So there is truth in both sides of the argument - the world is experiencing higher inflationary pressures and Brexit is contributing (by your own admission) to those pressures. It is not true to say Brexit has no effect on inflation, nor is it true to say Britain's inflationary pressures are 100% down to Brexit.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

I didn't absolve the EU of blame, any more than I absolved the UK or anywhere else of blame: I just pointed out that the problem highlighted in that article is the exploitation of migrant labour. As the article makes clear, it's a global problem. It's misleading, at best, to try to frame it as an EU problem.

 

Now that the UK has left the EU, those underpaid & overworked East Europeans in places like veg farms and sandwich factories will not be replaced by well-paid, well-respected British workers. That's not what Capitalism does. They will be replaced by people from poorer countries who will work for even less and will be even more exploitable, because they won't have the rights that come with citizenship. As a senior Tory secretly admitted in one of their WhatsApp groups, that's the whole point of Brexit.

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38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The issues raised in that article are all happening within the EU and a lot were flamed by the EU expansion into eastern europe and the cheap labour that followed. It was an EU project. 

 

Still at least your defence of absolving the EU of responsibility and shifting the blame onto global capitalism is not quite as ludicrous as those who believe the problem rests with poor consumers who can only afford the less expensive cuts of meat to feed their family.

 

The EU is a cheap labour market and the results are in that article. 

Gnasher when the west got the access to the labour the benefits flowed the other way too. Poland and Estonia requested to join the EU, they weren't asked. The decision looks a good one to me. Both joined in 2004.

 

Poland

GDP £130BN 2003

GDP £305BN 2014

GDP £590BN 2021

 

Estonia

GDP $9BN 2003

GDP $26BN 2014

GDP $36BN 2021

 

 

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12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I didn't absolve the EU of blame, any more than I absolved the UK or anywhere else of blame: I just pointed out that the problem highlighted in that article is the exploitation of migrant labour. As the article makes clear, it's a global problem. It's misleading, at best, to try to frame it as an EU problem.

 

Now that the UK has left the EU, those underpaid & overworked East Europeans in places like veg farms and sandwich factories will not be replaced by well-paid, well-respected British workers.

 

A lot of workers in mainly low paid occupations such as haulage/hospitality/agriculture have seen wages rise after Brexit though, that's a fact, look at the ONS so your argument is ludicrous.

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

That's not what Capitalism does. They will be replaced by people from poorer countries who will work for even less and will be even more exploitable, because they won't have the rights that come with citizenship. As a senior Tory secretly admitted in one of their WhatsApp groups, that's the whole point of Brexit.

 

You understand that some people's reason for Brexit differs from others? ie do you think Foot wanted out of Europe for the reason you've given above.

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14 minutes ago, No2 said:

Gnasher when the west got the access to the labour the benefits flowed the other way too. Poland and Estonia requested to join the EU, they weren't asked. The decision looks a good one to me. Both joined in 2004.

 

Poland

GDP £130BN 2003

GDP £305BN 2014

GDP £590BN 2021

 

Estonia

GDP $9BN 2003

GDP $26BN 2014

GDP $36BN 2021

 

 

No disrespect to Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary etc but I don't give a fuck about their economy, I'm more concerned with someone living on a sink estate in Britain and working for washers.

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9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No disrespect to Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary etc but I don't give a fuck about their economy, I'm more concerned with someone living on a sink estate in Britain and working for washers.

That's bollox, the very premise of your argument for 5 years is that the wealthy EU countries have used cheap labour for their benefit. You have whined about it and pretended to give a shit. I have just showed you that the relationship was a 2 way street.  Workers from those countries went from getting paid pittance at home to getting pittance in western countries but that pittance was still a fortune compared to the rates at home. In 20 years they have built economies that mean they can return home and raise a family and keep the kids working in their own country. Kind of what happened for Ireland in the first 20 years of their EU membership. 

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12 minutes ago, No2 said:

That's bollox, the very premise of your argument for 5 years is that the wealthy EU countries have used cheap labour for their benefit. You have whined about it and pretended to give a shit. I have just showed you that the relationship was a 2 way street.  Workers from those countries went from getting paid pittance at home to getting pittance in western countries but that pittance was still a fortune compared to the rates at home. In 20 years they have built economies that mean they can return home and raise a family and keep the kids working in their own country. Kind of what happened for Ireland in the first 20 years of their EU membership. 

 

I don't disagree with a lot of that, it is indeed a two way street, we chuck these countries our money they provide us plentiful cheap labour. Not sure what your argument is tbh.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

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