Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

Yet another one for the flat earthers..

 

Retail wages; 10% rise in the past year; 18% across hospitality and catering; Reed for the Sunday Times, article from June this year,

 

So on the wage rise front that's retail, agriculture, haulage,construction,hospitality plus others..but what have the Romans done for us Reg?

 

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/business-and-sports/20210614/281517934067109

[Mudface]

17 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

Or the Coronavirus thread - you can't even go into a shop.

Well you can, but you risk being summarily executed, or even worse being sent to a Biden-Fauci re-education camp.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 hours ago, Gnasher said:

No you said what about the jobs in retail,

Just fucking scroll up and read: I promise I haven't edited what either of us posted.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

What is it about low paid workers in agriculture, retail, haulage, construction etc that so upsets you Angry?  You yourself said you can't compere professions when negotiating pay rises, as you well know these people have been taken for granted and been paid pittance for years why act like you begrudge them a fair pay rise? 

These feeble and dishonest attempts at deflection don't work, so you can shove them back up your arse where they came from.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

20 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Third paragraph down

 

"largest increase in vacancies are in the retail sector" 

 

So you quit worrying about retail jobs (bizarre considering the climate) and also I wouldn't worry yourself too much over petrol, food and turkey shortages, it's all very daily mail and the shortages are likely to be inconsequential at worst.

Would that be because they are filling gaps from all those that left during the early stages of the pandemic (e.g students to go back home or furlough) and they haven’t been able to fill since. 
 

Also, I have a good mate who owns a bar in town, hospitality is still struggling and can’t pay the wage increases you keep championing (and aren’t happening all around the industry) because there isn’t the money to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Yet another one for the flat earthers..

 

Retail wages; 10% rise in the past year; 18% across hospitality and catering; Reed for the Sunday Times, article from June this year,

 

So on the wage rise front that's retail, agriculture, haulage,construction,hospitality plus others..but what have the Romans done for us Reg?

 

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/business-and-sports/20210614/281517934067109

The thing about flat-earthers is they take the first piece of evidence they see (the horizon) use it to cement their opinions and deride all the mountains of other evidence that shows they're wrong.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

These feeble and dishonest attempts at deflection don't work, so you can shove them back up your arse where they came from.

He’s like my mother in law when she gets called out on something she’s either wrong about or doesn’t want to face, she changes the subject. He just shifts the goalposts of his original argument (Brexit will the Tory free Utopia we all dream of)

 

Thing is I can laugh with my mother in law as she knows she does it. And does it on purpose. 

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

He’s like my mother in law when she gets called out on something she’s either wrong about or doesn’t want to face, she changes the subject. He just shifts the goalposts of his original argument (Brexit will the Tory free Utopia we all dream of)

 

Thing is I can laugh with my mother in law as she knows she does it. And does it on purpose. 

Are you saying haulage workers haven't received a pay rise? Or construction workers? Or retail workers? 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Retail wages; 10% rise in the past year; 18% across hospitality and catering; Reed for the Sunday Times, article from June this year,

 

So on the wage rise front that's retail, agriculture, haulage,construction,hospitality plus others..but what have the Romans done for us Reg?

 

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/business-and-sports/20210614/281517934067109

Retail wasn't really a sector dependent on EU migrants; something other than Brexit must account for wages being lower in Spring 2020 than in Spring 2021. Can you think of anything that might have caused that?

 

Looking to the immediate prospects for retail workers, retail is not a secure career: people don't get a job for life stacking shelves or working tills. They are the Tory wet dream of a "flexible workforce". This means that if the supermarkets can't put stuff on the shelves, they will lay staff off. If smaller shops can't put stuff on the shelves, they go bust; everyone loses their job and the big supermarkets eat up even more of the market share.

 

None of this is cause for celebration, for anyone but the most cynical millionaire Tories.

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The thing about flat-earthers is they take the first piece of evidence they see (the horizon) use it to cement their opinions and deride all the mountains of other evidence that shows they're wrong.

I've provided evidence on this page that proves your arguments about retail workers to be false. I've also provided numerous evidence from different respectable sources proving Brexit is partly responsible for a lot of people in a lot of sectors (mainly low paid) gaining wage rises.

 

The evidence provided seems to upset you, your attitude is part of the reason the Torys will walk the next election as they did the last.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Are you saying haulage workers haven't received a pay rise? Or construction workers? Or retail workers? 

 

 

I think he's saying he begrudges them their payrises. We hate the working class, doncha know.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Are you saying haulage workers haven't received a pay rise? Or construction workers? Or retail workers? 

 

 

Yes, my mate is a HGV driver, has effectively had a pay cut, like a lot of us due to inflation.
 

There is potential for HGV drivers to earn mega money (£50k) but they don’t get that from day 1, and the conditions are shite and people don’t want to work in a sector like that.  
 

 

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Retail wasn't really a sector dependent on EU migrants; something other than Brexit must account for wages being lower in Spring 2020 than in Spring 2021. Can you think of anything that might have caused that?

 

Looking to the immediate prospects for retail workers, retail is not a secure career: people don't get a job for life stacking shelves or working tills. They are the Tory wet dream of a "flexible workforce". This means that if the supermarkets can't put stuff on the shelves, they will lay staff off. If smaller shops can't put stuff on the shelves, they go bust; everyone loses their job and the big supermarkets eat up even more of the market share.

 

None of this is cause for celebration, for anyone but the most cynical millionaire Tories.

You brought up retail workers yesterday when we were discussing haulage wage rises. I believe your question was, without scrolling back "what about retail workers, what about those who stack shelves" I provided evidence of both increased vacancies and I provided futher evidence of increased wages in the retail sector.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

I've provided evidence on this page that proves your arguments about retail workers to be false.

No you haven't.

 

I've also provided numerous evidence from different respectable sources proving Brexit is partly responsible for a lot of people in a lot of sectors (mainly low paid) gaining wage rises.

Nobody says it's not partly responsible, in sectors that were dependent on EU migrants.

 

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

The evidence provided seems to upset you,

No it doesn't, any more than ghosts scare me (which they would, if they existed).

 

your attitude is part of the reason the Torys will walk the next election as they did the last.

I wish I had that much political influence!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

You brought up retail workers yesterday when we were discussing haulage wage rises. I believe your question was, without scrolling back "what about retail workers, what about those who stack shelves" I provided evidence of both increased vacancies and I provided futher evidence of increased wages in the retail sector.

Scroll up and read

 

You said retail workers had had some of the biggest pay rises. I asked for evidence. You pointed me to a link that said something else. In fairness, today you've posted that Reed link.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Yes, my mate is a HGV driver, has effectively had a pay cut, like a lot of us due to inflation.
 

There is potential for HGV drivers to earn mega money (£50k) but they don’t get that from day 1, and the conditions are shite and people don’t want to work in a sector like that.  
 

 

I agree with you on the conditions haulage workers have to work, I obviously can't comment on your mate personal situation but I think you'll find the vast majority of British haulage drivers veiw Brexit as a positive concerning their wages.

[Gnasher]

On 18/10/2021 at 11:47, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Working class people don't use those things, obviously: as long as we've got enough lard butties to keep us from starvation, we'll be OK.

 

What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?

"What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?"

 

You mean retail workers? I've provided two separate pieces of evidence stating both wages and vacancies are up in the retail sector.

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/business-and-sports/20210614/281517934067109

 

 

The article mentions Brexit pushing up wages, including retail. 

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Yes, my mate is a HGV driver, has effectively had a pay cut, like a lot of us due to inflation.
 

There is potential for HGV drivers to earn mega money (£50k) but they don’t get that from day 1, and the conditions are shite and people don’t want to work in a sector like that.  
 

 

The current UK inflation rate is 2.4% ... 

 

https://trans.info/en/union-member-lorry-drivers-receive-significant-pay-rises-at-several-companies-258428

[Skidfingers McGonical]

There you go again.

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

There you go again.

What? I'm giving bona fida evidence of haulage drivers receiving wage rises, I'd say my evidence is a lot more conclusive than the story about your mate.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Would that be because they are filling gaps from all those that left during the early stages of the pandemic (e.g students to go back home or furlough) and they haven’t been able to fill since. 
 

Also, I have a good mate who owns a bar in town, hospitality is still struggling and can’t pay the wage increases you keep championing (and aren’t happening all around the industry) because there isn’t the money to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the reports do state the reasons are Brexit and Covid, so it's reasonable to gauge a 50/50 split, but the country is seeing wage rises, not wage decreases, so it's obviously good news,

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-set-most-widespread-pay-rises-over-decade-cbi-2021-09-19/

 

As for your mate in town Merseyside has largely seen the lowest wage rises amongst the hospitality sectors ( i put a graph up on this thread ages ago but I'm fucked if I'm looking for it now) whilst Manchester had the largest rises in wages. Also construction wage increases after Brexit in Merseyside were miniscule compared to the rest of the country, I've no idea why this should be and did ask on here if anyone had any ideas why this should be but no-one could tell me.

 

I take your general point about pockets of workers missing out on increases but if you take the country as a whole almost all respected data points to above inflation wage rises, its a simple case of supply and demand.

 

Fair report by the BBC here;

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58881124.amp

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Another group of workers in demand, thanks to Brexit: English language teachers from Ireland, because it's just too much of a ballache to hire any from the UK.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-prompts-dramatic-rise-in-eu-demand-for-irish-teachers-of-english-l0jjqx958

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Another group of workers in demand, thanks to Brexit: English language teachers from Ireland, because it's just too much of a ballache to hire any from the UK.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-prompts-dramatic-rise-in-eu-demand-for-irish-teachers-of-english-l0jjqx958

At the forthcoming election why should a potential labour voter living in a block of flats in a run down estate in a marginal seat give two fucks about the EUs recruitment of English teachers?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

"What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?"

 

You mean retail workers? I've provided two separate pieces of evidence stating both wages and vacancies are up in the retail sector.

OK. 

I suggested that the current raft of shortages (the ones that started a few weeks ago and will continue at least for a few months) will impact people who work in retail. Your "evidence" that shopworkers have got nothing to worry about is

1.  There were significantly more vacancies in July-September 2021 than there were in July-September 2020, when things were still barely open.

2. Wages are higher in 2021 than in 2020, when staff were furloughed.

 

There really is no reason to imagine that these Covid effects will continue - or that bosses will pay staff when there's nowt on the shelves.

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/business-and-sports/20210614/281517934067109

 

 

The article mentions Brexit pushing up wages, including retail. 

Not in retail it doesn't, because retail was never as dependent on migrants as other sectors.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

At the forthcoming election why should a potential labour voter living in a block of flats in a run down estate in a marginal seat give two fucks about the EUs recruitment of English teachers?

Nice deflection.

 

There was a time that working class people could get a decent chance to see a bit of the world, working anywhere in Europe. But 51.9% of the electorate sacked that off for a busful of lies.