Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

29 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No Angry government and employers now have no choice, whatever they say.

 

Can't stand the stuff.

We've been through this. The people in the sectors where above-inflation pay-rises are being offered this year (due to a combination of Covid and Brexit) will come down to Earth with a bump next year, because Brexit has given untrammeled power to the right wing of the Tory Party and they will use it to cut workers' rights.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

We've been through this. The people in the sectors where above-inflation pay-rises are being offered this year (due to a combination of Covid and Brexit) will come down to Earth with a bump next year, because Brexit has given untrammeled power to the right wing of the Tory Party and they will use it to cut workers' rights.

You seriously believe haulage drivers in Britain will come down to earth with a bump? You seriously believe farm pickers will receive less/same wages than before Brexit? 

 

Is that what you're saying or have I read you wrong? These labour shortages are not going away anytime soon Angry and even if they do bosses won't get away with flying in plane loads of Romanian fruit pickers etc. The games changed, and for the better.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

43 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Britain is not going hungry, the shortages are nothing worth talking about.

That's a response that Johnson or Rees-Mogg could have come out with.

 

The bottom line is that there are widespread shortages of labour and of goods; these are aggravated by Brexit and they are hitting poorer people and smaller companies hardest, while the rich sail blithely on.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58721085.amp

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

You seriously believe haulage drivers in Britain will come down to earth with a bump? You seriously believe farm pickers will receive less/same wages than before Brexit? 

 

Is that what you're saying or have I read you wrong? These labour shortages are not going away anytime soon Angry and even if they do bosses won't get away with flying in plane loads of Romanian fruit pickers etc. The games changed, and for the better.

The labour shortages won't go away soon. The companies who have increased wages (with mixed levels of success) are bleating to the Government that these levels of pay are not sustainable and that something else has to be done to plug the gap. Whatever that something else is (and we've already seen the Government cut back safety standards for HGV drivers) it's unlikely to be good for workers.

 

At least, that's my prediction, based on my distrust of Tories. If you think the Johnson regime will do right by workers, then all I can say is I hope you're right.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's a response that Johnson or Rees-Mogg could have come out with.

 

The bottom line is that there are widespread shortages of labour and of goods; these are aggravated by Brexit and they are hitting poorer people and smaller companies hardest, while the rich sail blithely on.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58721085.amp

 

You falling into the tory/bosses trap of lamenting labour shortages there Angry. Labour shortages can be fantastic for workers, as the past months have proven. Employers are offering higher rates or/and incentives in large sectors, great.

 

As for food shortages, get a grip, no one in Britain is going to starve because theirs not enough food in the shops, they will however definitely starve because of other avoidable means.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's a response that Johnson or Rees-Mogg could have come out with.

 

The bottom line is that there are widespread shortages of labour and of goods; these are aggravated by Brexit and they are hitting poorer people and smaller companies hardest, while the rich sail blithely on.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58721085.amp

 

Starts reading the bbc possible shortages list from September. Petrol, Cars, Toys, Christmas trees, Turkey. Don't make me laugh.

[Gnasher]

Labour supporters moaning about labour shortages (which have helped gain the low paid wage rises) because their could be a shortage of Turkeys for Christmas.

 

Gazes at polls, Labour ten points down to worst government in history, hmm?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You falling into the tory/bosses trap of lamenting labour shortages there Angry. Labour shortages can be fantastic for workers, as the past months have proven. Employers are offering higher rates or/and incentives in large sectors, great.

Labour shortages "can be fantastic" if workers and their unions have any power. Brexit and its concomitant hard-line Tory Government will ensure that that is not the case.

(The real "Tory trap" here is the assumption that we can trust market forces of supply and demand to sort everything out in our favour. That has never happened and never will.)

 

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

As for food shortages, get a grip, no one in Britain is going to starve because theirs not enough food in the shops, they will however definitely starve because of other avoidable means.

This is what I mean by comparing that comment to the scummy Tories: for normal, decent people, starvation isn't the benchmark. The question is whether people (disproportionately poorer people) are facing hardships that could and should have been avoided.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Starts reading the bbc possible shortages list from September. Petrol, Cars, Toys, Christmas trees, Turkey. Don't make me laugh.

Working class people don't use those things, obviously: as long as we've got enough lard butties to keep us from starvation, we'll be OK.

 

What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Working class people don't use those things, obviously: as long as we've got enough lard butties to keep us from starvation we'll be OK.

What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?

 

Starvation? You're losing the plot, you seriously think people in Britain will starve because of food shortages? I'm not sure if your taking the piss. The reason people in this country starve is because they've no money to purchase food not because of lack of food in shops. 

 

As for you worrying about job vacancies, we're flush, the jobs markets buoyant and wages are rising (which has also flushed out the false lefties who seem a bit upset for some strange reason)

 

 

As the economics editor half way down the link says "great time to be looking for a job" so your worry's are wasted Angry. The lady in the building industry at bottom of thread is spot on with real concerns over wages rising whilst productivity stalls, a firm I know had a similar problem a few weeks ago, their are definitely dangers lurking, especially with material shortages.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58881124.amp

 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Working class people don't use those things, obviously: as long as we've got enough lard butties to keep us from starvation, we'll be OK.

 

What about the people employed to sell those things? What happens to them?

 "The people employed to sell them things" are doing fine, you're not in the real world and it's going to be one of the main reasons Labour are going to get hammered at the next election, and if they knock on doorsteps dismissing wage rises and promising a flood of overseas workers to fix labour shortages they will deserve to get hammered.

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Britain is not going hungry, the shortages are nothing worth talking about.

 

Try the poverty thread, they're going hungry in there.

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Try the poverty thread, they're going hungry in there.

Haha, Yep but they're not going hungry because of a lack of supply of food in the shops.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Starvation? You're losing the plot, you seriously think people in Britain will starve because of food shortages? I'm not sure if your taking the piss.

Stop arguing against stuff nobody is saying.

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

This is what I mean by comparing that comment to the scummy Tories: for normal, decent people, starvation isn't the benchmark. The question is whether people (disproportionately poorer people) are facing hardships that could and should have been avoided.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

28 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 "The people employed to sell them things" are doing fine, you're not in the real world 

Cluelessness I can forgive; it's the way you couldn't give a shiny shite for anyone other than British construction workers that pisses me off.

 

Other workers exist.  Most of them are having a shit time.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Cluelessness I can forgive; it's the way you couldn't give a shiny shite for anyone other than British construction workers that pisses me off.

 

Other workers exist.  Most of them are having a shit time.

That's not true Angry, you can't stop a lot of sectors, and their are an awful lot of sectors receiving pay rises as shown in the bbc link because others have not as yet. Labour need to stop this race to the bottom nonsense and trumpet the pay rises some of the poorest people in society are receiving, its not a case of one or the other, hopefully public sector workers can use these rises as a guide to improving their own pay and conditions. If Labour does not come out and bat for the veg pickers, hod carriers, coffee shop workers of this country then what's their pointing? it just gives the impression they were never really on the side of construction workers ( 3million in Uk) of this country or the haulage workers of this country or the agriculture workers of this country etc at all but were just the anti Brexit pro Ursula party. 

 

The largest increase in wages were in retail and motor vehicle repair, add them to the list. We're reaching a monty python 'what has Brexit done for us' situation here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58881124.amp

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

That's not true Angry, you can't stop a lot of sectors, and their are an awful lot of sectors receiving pay rises as shown in the bbc link because others have not as yet. Labour need to stop this race to the bottom nonsense and trumpet the pay rises some of the poorest people in society are receiving, its not a case of one or the other, hopefully public sector workers can use these rises as a guide to improving their own pay and conditions. If Labour does not come out and bat for the veg pickers, hod carriers, coffee shop workers of this country then what's their pointing? it just gives the impression they were never really on the side of construction workers ( 3million in Uk) of this country or the haulage workers of this country or the agriculture workers of this country etc at all but were just the anti Brexit pro Ursula party. 

 

The largest increase in wages were in retail and motor vehicle repair, add them to the list. We're reaching a monty python 'what has Brexit done for us' situation here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58881124.amp

 

 

You've got seriously rose-tinted specs, there. The only person in that BBC report acting as optimistic as you is Rishi fucking Sunak. (That alone should set alarm bells ringing.) Everyone else says that the apparently positive figures aren't all they seem. Also, of course, nobody is attributing anything wholly to Brexit because that would be daft.

 

Where are you getting "biggest payrises are in retail" from? I can't find anyone being that optimistic about prospects for retail workers (which is understandable: if you can't reliably put stuff on the shelves, you can't pay people for selling it).

 

I don't even know what you're on about talking about Labour and the race to the bottom. Labour certainly do need to campaign harder on pay and conditions, but if they listen to you (and Rishi Sunak) then they needn't bother, because Brexit has solved everything.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You've got seriously rose-tinted specs, there. The only person in that BBC report acting as optimistic as you is Rishi fucking Sunak. (That alone should set alarm bells ringing.) Everyone else says that the apparently positive figures aren't all they seem. Also, of course, nobody is attributing anything wholly to Brexit because that would be daft.

 

Where are you getting "biggest payrises are in retail" from? I can't find anyone being that optimistic about prospects for retail workers (which is understandable: if you can't reliably put stuff on the shelves, you can't pay people for selling it).

 

I don't even know what you're on about talking about Labour and the race to the bottom. Labour certainly do need to campaign harder on pay and conditions, but if they listen to you (and Rishi Sunak) then they needn't bother, because Brexit has solved everything.

Third paragraph down

 

"largest increase in vacancies are in the retail sector" 

 

So you quit worrying about retail jobs (bizarre considering the climate) and also I wouldn't worry yourself too much over petrol, food and turkey shortages, it's all very daily mail and the shortages are likely to be inconsequential at worst.

[Bruce Spanner]

‘‘Pangloss would sometimes say to Candide: “All events are linked together in the best of all possible worlds, for, after all, if you had not been kicked out of a fine castle for your love of Miss Cunégonde . . . then you wouldn’t be here eating preserved citrons and pistachio-nuts.”’

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Third paragraph down

 

"largest increase in vacancies are in the retail sector" 

You said "largest increase in wages". That's not true, is it?

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

So you quit worrying about retail jobs (bizarre considering the climate) and also I wouldn't worry yourself too much over petrol, food and turkey shortages, it's all very daily mail and the shortages are likely to be inconsequential at worst.

Yeah, British construction workers are getting a rise this year. Fuck everyone else.

[TheHowieLama]

4 hours ago, Gnasher said:

no one in Britain is going to starve because theirs not enough food in the shops

 

2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Try the poverty thread, they're going hungry in there.

 

Or the Coronavirus thread - you can't even go into a shop.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You said "largest increase in wages". That's not true, is it

No you said what about the jobs in retail, you've obviously spent the last twelve months with your head in the sand (I hear Dubai's the in place for phoney socialists) the link proves vacancies in retail are plentiful, so you've nothing to worry about, I've allayed your fears.

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yeah, British construction workers are getting a rise this year. Fuck everyone else.

But it's far from just construction workers getting a wage raise though is it Angry? I take it the haulage crises has passed you by? Or the raise in wages in agriculture etc?

 

What is it about low paid workers in agriculture, retail, haulage, construction etc that so upsets you Angry?  You yourself said you can't compere professions when negotiating pay rises, as you well know these people have been taken for granted and been paid pittance for years why act like you begrudge them a fair pay rise? 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

Or the Coronavirus thread - you can't even go into a shop.

Fucking hell its getting worse, I might try the Space thread, bound to be the odd burger floating about.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Cluelessness I can forgive; it's the way you couldn't give a shiny shite for anyone other than British construction workers that pisses me off.

 

Other workers exist.  Most of them are having a shit time.

Not just construction workers having pay rises Angry, but I think you knew that,

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-set-most-widespread-pay-rises-over-decade-cbi-2021-09-19/

 

 

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You said "largest increase in wages". That's not true, is it?

Yeah, British construction workers are getting a rise this year. Fuck everyone else.

Not really a case of fuck everyone else though is it Angry, you're just being silly now,

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-set-most-widespread-pay-rises-over-decade-cbi-2021-09-19/