Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Nope. The barometer is the going rate. Examples, if Bricklayers get a pay rise it's not a shock if Carpenters then ask for one, at the other end of the scale if Itv or Sky up its rate for presenters etc the bbc will either follow suit or lose its staff.

In the same sector or the same workplace, pay differentials sometimes come into consideration. If a Bristol barista gets a payrise, that has absolutely zero impact on pay for hospital porters or school classroom assistants. What happens in one sector, stays in one sector.

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

16.4% is one heck of a pay freeze.

Can I just clarify?

You are denying there has been a pay freeze over the last decade?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

16.4% is one heck of a pay freeze.

What sector do you work in?

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Can I just clarify?

You are denying there has been a pay freeze over the last decade?

 

I'm saying that my pay rose 16.4% in five years under the coalition.

 

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What sector do you work in?

 

Public.

[Arniepie]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm saying that my pay rose 16.4% in five years under the coalition.

 

 

Public.

But unless I'm very much mistaken we are talking about the public sector pay freeze,not just yours.

So I'll try again.

Are you denying there has been a public sector pay freeze/cap over the last 10 years?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

I can't speak for anyone else but my pay increased by 16.4% between May 2010 and May 2015.

 

6.5% between 2015 and 2020 once the Tories were governing on their own.

RPI increased 15.6% between May 2010 and May 2015, so your five years worth of pay rises aren't that impressive.

 

RPI increased by 13% in the five years you were amassing your 6.5% "pay rise".

 

Overall, in real terms, your pay has stagnated in the last decade, just like everyone else's (except the very richest).

[AngryOfTuebrook]

24 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Public.

Pay increases vs RPI in the Local Govt sector

 

Year.     Increase.     RPI 

2016.       1.0%.         1.3%

2017.       1.0%.         3.5%

2018.        2.0%.        3.4%

2019.        2.0%.        3.0%

2020.        2.75%.      1.5%

2021.         1.75%.     2.9%

 

(The 2021 figure is the pay offer, which has been rejected, with the possibility of national strike action.)

 

[Arniepie]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

RPI increased 15.6% between May 2010 and May 2015, so your five years worth of pay rises aren't that impressive.

 

RPI increased by 13% in the five years you were amassing your 6.5% "pay rise".

 

Overall, in real terms, your pay has stagnated in the last decade, just like everyone else's (except the very richest).

When I started here we used to.get a standard of living rise and your normal pay rise.

Both of these were written in our contract and both have now gone.

There was a 2 or 3 year pay frese when they 1st got in.

Then there was a 2 year 1% cap and we are now in the middle of another 2 year one.

I think if you under something like 20k you get £500.

I think pcs have estimated in real terms it's a cut of between 8% and 16%.

[Strontium]

48 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

But unless I'm very much mistaken we are talking about the public sector pay freeze,not just yours.

So I'll try again.

Are you denying there has been a public sector pay freeze/cap over the last 10 years?

 

Yes, I'm sure you'll try again and again to pretend that public sector pay restraint was a thing under the Lib Dems, when it's apparent from the actual figures that it didn't really begin until 2015.

 

16 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

When I started here we used to.get a standard of living rise and your normal pay rise

 

Must have been a while ago, because when I started working in the civil service in 2000, pittance pay rises were already a thing.

 

I repeat, the fastest increase in my basic wage over a 20+ year career was in the period 2010-15. And I have the payslips to prove it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Yes, I'm sure you'll try again and again to pretend that public sector pay restraint was a thing under the Lib Dems, when it's apparent from the actual figures that it didn't really begin until 2015.

Your own pay barely kept its nose ahead of RPI. That seems like restraint to me.

[Arniepie]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yes, I'm sure you'll try again and again to pretend that public sector pay restraint was a thing under the Lib Dems, when it's apparent from the actual figures that it didn't really begin until 2015.

 

 

Must have been a while ago, because when I started working in the civil service in 2000, pittance pay rises were already a thing.

 

I repeat, the fastest increase in my basic wage over a 20+ year career was in the period 2010-15. And I have the payslips to prove it.

I'll repeat once again

You realise the debate is about civil servants in general and not just your pay?

 

I joined in 2001 when we had 2 guaranteed pay rises a year.

Quite how that constitutes to less a pay rises than during a period where we have 5 years of a pay freeze and 2 year pay 1% cap is anyones guess.

[Arniepie]

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/news/article/civil-servants-face-renewed-pay-freeze-as-treasury-signals-restraint

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to everyone. 

[Bjornebye]

I'm glad the bedroom tax paid for someone's pay-rise. 

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Your own pay barely kept its nose ahead of RPI. That seems like restraint to me.

 

Not sure I put that much stock in measures like the RPI. The RPI basket of goods in 2010 included such items as rose bushes, pork shoulders and vet fees for kittens. Perhaps some civil servants are spending all their disposable income on things like that, but I don't know any of them.

 

Regardless, I keep being told that the coalition government led to a rollback in my living standards, and I'm afraid to say that just wasn't the case at all.

[Arniepie]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/10/civil-servants-pay-stagnated-decade-real-rise

 

Obviously people taking on 2nd jobs are doing it for shits and giggles.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Not sure I put that much stock in measures like the RPI. The RPI basket of goods in 2010 included such items as rose bushes, pork shoulders and vet fees for kittens. Perhaps some civil servants are spending all their disposable income on things like that, but I don't know any of them.

 

Regardless, I keep being told that the coalition government led to a rollback in my living standards, and I'm afraid to say that just wasn't the case at all.

Right. At the end of that 5 years, you were putting 16.4% more food on the table. OK .

[Strontium]

9 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/10/civil-servants-pay-stagnated-decade-real-rise

 

Obviously people taking on 2nd jobs are doing it for shits and giggles.

 

Again, I can't say I personally know anyone working two jobs. Though having said that I do vaguely recall a colleague working a temp evening job in the early 00s.

 

Doubtless Mark doesn't need to on north of 90 grand a year.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Not sure I put that much stock in measures like the RPI. The RPI basket of goods in 2010 included such items as rose bushes, pork shoulders and vet fees for kittens. Perhaps some civil servants are spending all their disposable income on things like that, but I don't know any of them.

 

That's a classic Stronts response, banking on nobody being sad enough to waste time checking whether or not you're being a disingenuous twerp. How about the other 650 items in the basket of goods and services; did you do without them too?

 

Here's the reality.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/elmr.2010.50

 

[Strontium]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's a classic Stronts response, banking on nobody being sad enough to waste time checking whether or not you're being a disingenuous twerp. How about the other 650 items in the basket of goods and services; did you do without them too?

 

Here's the reality.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/elmr.2010.50

 

 

Well I don't use hair straighteners or eat frozen fish, and I only use lip gloss on the weekend.

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Sound

 

So a big fuck pay rise this year then.

Not necessarily but its almost certainly a lot more likely than if we stayed in the EU and with it the decades of wage stagnation that being in the EU entailed.

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

In the same sector or the same workplace, pay differentials sometimes come into consideration. If a Bristol barista gets a payrise, that has absolutely zero impact on pay for hospital porters or school classroom assistants. What happens in one sector, stays in one sector.

Does it? You think the coffee shop girl in Bristol is oblivious to what the pay rate of a different sector ( say an office girl) down the road? Do you honestly think a big pay rise for one sector will really have zero acknowledgement for workers in another sector? I don't think so Angry.

 

Haven't unions used other sector pay rises as a bargaining chip to forward pay rises for their own workers (quite rightly)since year dot?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

If I brought a rabid dog into a primary school, I couldn't use the defence "I had it on a leash, so it only bit a few children".

 

I don't think Lib Dems should boast about the restraint they claim to have exercised over the Tory Government they enabled.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Does it? You think the coffee shop girl in Bristol is oblivious to what the pay rate of a different sector ( say an office girl) down the road? Do you honestly think a big pay rise for one sector will really have zero acknowledgement for workers in another sector? I don't think so Angry.

Yes.

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

Haven't unions used other sector pay rises as a bargaining chip to forward pay rises for their own workers (quite rightly)since year dot?

No.

 

I don't know where you're getting this from but it's just not reality.

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes.

No.

 

I don't know where you're getting this from but it's just not reality.

Why would a coffee shop girl in Bristol be oblivious to what a girl in a office (possibly her mate) earns and what wage rise she's just received?  Bizarre, the majority of people are fairly clued up.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes.

No.

 

I don't know where you're getting this from but it's just not reality.

Sorry on your second point, really? You've never heard of a union saying if the fireman have got such and such a rise surely we as policeman or whatever deserve the same? You've really not heard that bargaining tool? Bizarre.