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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

316 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      258
    • No
      58


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So here is how it's going to work..we are going to send all the foreign lorry drivers home in the midst of a pandemic meaning we are going to be left with empty shelves and mass panic at garages.

We are then going to beg said lorry drivers to come back to help us out but I promised they will be booted out once things get back to normal.

Sound like a plan?

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HGV drivers and various workers have been underpaid for years and so leave the various industries hence the shortage is now exposed. I brought my family back in 2008 , biggest mistake ever. We all ended up in underpaid jobs being treated like crap and there was fuck all we could do about it legally. My wife and kids couldnt get what was termed job seekers allowance because I had a job ahead of our return. Happy to leave it all behind.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Other countries calling it out for what it is and have been doing for a while whilst we sleepwalk to the brink of real societal struggles.

 

The last paragraph is especially pertinent.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/britain-fuel-crisis-johnson.html?searchResultPosition=2

 

'LONDON — Long lines outside gas stations. Panicked drivers fighting one another as the pumps run dry. Soldiers deployed to distribute fuel across the country. And in the background, the pandemic stretching on, food rotting in fields and families sinking into poverty. This is Britain in 2021.

 

Not long ago, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson lifted all pandemic restrictions in July, the mood across the country was cautiously optimistic. A successful vaccine rollout had finally restored cherished freedoms to daily life: visiting friends and family in their homes, socializing with strangers, eating in restaurants. Cases of the virus continued to multiply, but the number of hospitalizations and deaths fell markedly. The nightmare, it seemed, was over.

 

But any sense of normality has been banished in the past few weeks. A dramatic fuel crisis, caused in large part by a lack of truck drivers and which at its peak forced around a third of all gas stations to close, is only the most glaring concern.

 

A convergence of problems — a global gas shortage, rising energy and food prices, supply-chain issues and the Conservatives’ decision to slash welfare — has cast the country’s future in darkness. Even Mr. Johnson, known for his boosterish optimism and bonhomie, has struggled to make light of the situation.

 

The panic of the past week, which recalled old memories (and myths) about the tumultuous late 1970s, was a long time coming. For many months, industry leaders across the economy have warned about chronic labor shortages — of truck drivers, yes, but also fruit pickers, meat processors, waiters and health care workers — disrupting supply chains and impeding businesses.

 

\The signs of breakdown are everywhere: empty shelves in supermarkets, food going to waste in fields, more and more vacancy posters tacked to the windows of shops and restaurants. Meat producers have even called on the government to let them hire prisoners to plug the gap.

 

One of the main causes of this predicament is Brexit, or at least the government’s handling of Brexit. Britain’s protracted departure from the bloc, undertaken without any real effort by Mr. Johnson to ensure a smooth transition, led to an exodus of European workers — a process then compounded by the pandemic. As many as 1.3 million overseas nationals left Britain between July 2019 and September 2020.

 

Yet as it became clear that Britain faced substantial shortages in labor, the Conservatives refused to respond. They bloviated, calling it a “manufactured situation.” They prevaricated, assuring the public there was nothing to worry about. And, seeing the chance to recast their negligence as benevolence, they claimed their failure to act was because they wanted companies to pay British workers more, instead of relying on cheap foreign labor.

 

This alibi for inaction is unconvincing. In the Netherlands, for example, new legislation has improved the pay and working conditions for truck drivers. In Britain, conditions remain among the worst in Europe. The government’s belated response — offering 5,000 temporary visas for drivers from E.U. nations — is too little, too late.

 

Instead of higher wages, the British public have so far encountered only higher prices. Inflation has risen faster than at any point since 1997 and the climbing price of gas globally is placing further strain on people’s lives, making energy more expensive than anywhere in Europe.

 

Whereas other governments, in Spain and Italy, have ensured that struggling families are protected from rising costs, the Conservatives have offered no such clemency. Three million households in Britain already live in “fuel poverty,” made to choose between heating and eating in the winter. After the Conservatives raise a cap on energy prices in October, that number is expected to increase by a further half million.

 

Mr. Johnson nonetheless claims to have given British Conservatism a kinder face. He speaks rousingly of “leveling up” and “turbocharging” left-behind communities. But the behavior of his government suggests otherwise.

 

On Sept. 30, it ended a program that compensated people for up to 80 percent of lost income during the pandemic. And on Oct. 6, the Conservatives will cut Universal Credit, Britain’s all-encompassing welfare program, by 20 pounds, or $27, a week — just when more people than ever rely on it. The largest single reduction to the welfare state in British history, it’s forecast to push half a million more people below the poverty line, including 200,000 children. (A newly announced winter hardship fund worth £500 million, or $673 million, will do little to soften a cut 12 times its size.)

 

This grim confluence, from fuel shortages to spiraling poverty, has been described by many as a “perfect storm.” Yet the metaphor erases the active role the Conservatives — and in particular, the prime minister — have played in orchestrating these foreboding conditions. The bleak winter ahead is of their making.

 

But Mr. Johnson is unlikely to bear the consequences of his actions. His government, resting on a large majority, remains secure. And for him, crises are always opportunities. A master shape-shifter, unburdened by any sense of accountability or honesty, he thrives in conditions of adversity. The rest of the country won’t be so lucky.'

Fair article that bar for the statement that wages haven't risen, not true.

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I now believe that satire is dead.

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/government-hands-brexit-helpline-contract-to-company-in-india-293105/

 

'The government has handed a contract to run a Brexit helpline for British businesses to a company in India. According to reports in The Times A source told The Times last night that the contract had been awarded to Hinduja Global Solutions, an IT services management company that is listed in Mumbai and has operations in Britain.

 

Its biggest shareholder is the Hinduja Group, led by the billionaire brothers Gopi and Sri Hinduja.

 

The Department for International Trade is set to announce details of the hotline this week.

 

It is expected to help companies navigate a sea of new rules, including documentation and physical checks on goods, that are due to come into force next year.

 

From January 1st businesses will face full customs declarations and controls. Further trade hurdles will be phased in after that.

 

Export health certificates for animal food products will be introduced in July.'

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11 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

HGV drivers and various workers have been underpaid for years and so leave the various industries hence the shortage is now exposed. I brought my family back in 2008 , biggest mistake ever. We all ended up in underpaid jobs being treated like crap and there was fuck all we could do about it legally. My wife and kids couldnt get what was termed job seekers allowance because I had a job ahead of our return. Happy to leave it all behind.

True, as have many other profesions, lots of jobs have been underpaid for decades.

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3 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Other countries calling it out for what it is and have been doing for a while whilst we sleepwalk to the brink of real societal struggles.

 

The last paragraph is especially pertinent.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/britain-fuel-crisis-johnson.html?searchResultPosition=2

 

'LONDON — Long lines outside gas stations. Panicked drivers fighting one another as the pumps run dry. Soldiers deployed to distribute fuel across the country. And in the background, the pandemic stretching on, food rotting in fields and families sinking into poverty. This is Britain in 2021.

 

Not long ago, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson lifted all pandemic restrictions in July, the mood across the country was cautiously optimistic. A successful vaccine rollout had finally restored cherished freedoms to daily life: visiting friends and family in their homes, socializing with strangers, eating in restaurants. Cases of the virus continued to multiply, but the number of hospitalizations and deaths fell markedly. The nightmare, it seemed, was over.

 

But any sense of normality has been banished in the past few weeks. A dramatic fuel crisis, caused in large part by a lack of truck drivers and which at its peak forced around a third of all gas stations to close, is only the most glaring concern.

 

A convergence of problems — a global gas shortage, rising energy and food prices, supply-chain issues and the Conservatives’ decision to slash welfare — has cast the country’s future in darkness. Even Mr. Johnson, known for his boosterish optimism and bonhomie, has struggled to make light of the situation.

 

The panic of the past week, which recalled old memories (and myths) about the tumultuous late 1970s, was a long time coming. For many months, industry leaders across the economy have warned about chronic labor shortages — of truck drivers, yes, but also fruit pickers, meat processors, waiters and health care workers — disrupting supply chains and impeding businesses.

 

\The signs of breakdown are everywhere: empty shelves in supermarkets, food going to waste in fields, more and more vacancy posters tacked to the windows of shops and restaurants. Meat producers have even called on the government to let them hire prisoners to plug the gap.

 

One of the main causes of this predicament is Brexit, or at least the government’s handling of Brexit. Britain’s protracted departure from the bloc, undertaken without any real effort by Mr. Johnson to ensure a smooth transition, led to an exodus of European workers — a process then compounded by the pandemic. As many as 1.3 million overseas nationals left Britain between July 2019 and September 2020.

 

Yet as it became clear that Britain faced substantial shortages in labor, the Conservatives refused to respond. They bloviated, calling it a “manufactured situation.” They prevaricated, assuring the public there was nothing to worry about. And, seeing the chance to recast their negligence as benevolence, they claimed their failure to act was because they wanted companies to pay British workers more, instead of relying on cheap foreign labor.

 

This alibi for inaction is unconvincing. In the Netherlands, for example, new legislation has improved the pay and working conditions for truck drivers. In Britain, conditions remain among the worst in Europe. The government’s belated response — offering 5,000 temporary visas for drivers from E.U. nations — is too little, too late.

 

Instead of higher wages, the British public have so far encountered only higher prices. Inflation has risen faster than at any point since 1997 and the climbing price of gas globally is placing further strain on people’s lives, making energy more expensive than anywhere in Europe.

 

Whereas other governments, in Spain and Italy, have ensured that struggling families are protected from rising costs, the Conservatives have offered no such clemency. Three million households in Britain already live in “fuel poverty,” made to choose between heating and eating in the winter. After the Conservatives raise a cap on energy prices in October, that number is expected to increase by a further half million.

 

Mr. Johnson nonetheless claims to have given British Conservatism a kinder face. He speaks rousingly of “leveling up” and “turbocharging” left-behind communities. But the behavior of his government suggests otherwise.

 

On Sept. 30, it ended a program that compensated people for up to 80 percent of lost income during the pandemic. And on Oct. 6, the Conservatives will cut Universal Credit, Britain’s all-encompassing welfare program, by 20 pounds, or $27, a week — just when more people than ever rely on it. The largest single reduction to the welfare state in British history, it’s forecast to push half a million more people below the poverty line, including 200,000 children. (A newly announced winter hardship fund worth £500 million, or $673 million, will do little to soften a cut 12 times its size.)

 

This grim confluence, from fuel shortages to spiraling poverty, has been described by many as a “perfect storm.” Yet the metaphor erases the active role the Conservatives — and in particular, the prime minister — have played in orchestrating these foreboding conditions. The bleak winter ahead is of their making.

 

But Mr. Johnson is unlikely to bear the consequences of his actions. His government, resting on a large majority, remains secure. And for him, crises are always opportunities. A master shape-shifter, unburdened by any sense of accountability or honesty, he thrives in conditions of adversity. The rest of the country won’t be so lucky.'

What a one sided article. There's no mention there of the benefits of being able to buy potatoes by the pound rather than the kilo. There's no mention of how superior you feel standing in endless lines at Heathrow to get into the country holding a blue passport. And there's no mention about living in poverty is a price worth paying providing your neighbour isn't from Poland. 

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2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

What a one sided article. There's no mention there of the benefits of being able to buy potatoes by the pound rather than the kilo. There's no mention of how superior you feel standing in endless lines at Heathrow to get into the country holding a blue passport. And there's no mention about living in poverty is a price worth paying providing your neighbour isn't from Poland. 

I don't think many British lorry drivers will be living in poverty anytime soon tbh, or don't British workers count?

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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

I don't think many British lorry drivers will be living in poverty anytime soon tbh, or don't British workers count?

I think you will find they will be, because even a pay rise will leave most in poverty. And the wages and conditions of our lorry drivers is not a fault of the EU, if it was those conditions and wages would be reflected all over Europe. The wages and conditions of our lorry drivers, be they British, polish or anything else, is down to the cunts who employ them in this country. 

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5 hours ago, CapeRed said:

HGV drivers and various workers have been underpaid for years and so leave the various industries hence the shortage is now exposed. I brought my family back in 2008 , biggest mistake ever. We all ended up in underpaid jobs being treated like crap and there was fuck all we could do about it legally. My wife and kids couldnt get what was termed job seekers allowance because I had a job ahead of our return. Happy to leave it all behind.

Being underpaid in this country.is not exclusive to lorry drivers.

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5 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I now believe that satire is dead.

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/government-hands-brexit-helpline-contract-to-company-in-india-293105/

 

'The government has handed a contract to run a Brexit helpline for British businesses to a company in India. According to reports in The Times A source told The Times last night that the contract had been awarded to Hinduja Global Solutions, an IT services management company that is listed in Mumbai and has operations in Britain.

 

Its biggest shareholder is the Hinduja Group, led by the billionaire brothers Gopi and Sri Hinduja.

 

The Department for International Trade is set to announce details of the hotline this week.

 

It is expected to help companies navigate a sea of new rules, including documentation and physical checks on goods, that are due to come into force next year.

 

From January 1st businesses will face full customs declarations and controls. Further trade hurdles will be phased in after that.

 

Export health certificates for animal food products will be introduced in July.'

A completely unexpected development. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think you will find they will be, because even a pay rise will leave most in poverty. And the wages and conditions of our lorry drivers is not a fault of the EU, if it was those conditions and wages would be reflected all over Europe. The wages and conditions of our lorry drivers, be they British, polish or anything else, is down to the cunts who employ them in this country. 

You seriously believe a British lorry driver will be living in poverty any time soon? OK we'll have to disagree.

 

I do agree with you on the wages being down to cunts in this country though.

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6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Being underpaid in this country.is not exclusive to lorry drivers.

Certainly not, a lot of sectres have seen twenty odd years of near stagnation regarding wages.

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1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Being underpaid in this country.is not exclusive to lorry drivers.

I didnt say it was , I said hgv drivers and various others

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8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Fair article that bar for the statement that wages haven't risen, not true.

There had, indeed, been a spike in wages in the sectors you choose to acknowledge.

The millions of workers you choose to ignore are getting yet another real-terms pay cut.

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Blaming this all on Covid is funny. 

I stand at bars with all sorts of other people, no masks, no social distancing, so I can't see ANY Covid restrictions affecting this issue any longer.  

I wonder how long this pretence can be legitimately be sustained.  

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10 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I now believe that satire is dead.

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/government-hands-brexit-helpline-contract-to-company-in-india-293105/

 

'The government has handed a contract to run a Brexit helpline for British businesses to a company in India. According to reports in The Times A source told The Times last night that the contract had been awarded to Hinduja Global Solutions, an IT services management company that is listed in Mumbai and has operations in Britain.

 

Its biggest shareholder is the Hinduja Group, led by the billionaire brothers Gopi and Sri Hinduja.

 

The Department for International Trade is set to announce details of the hotline this week.

 

It is expected to help companies navigate a sea of new rules, including documentation and physical checks on goods, that are due to come into force next year.

 

From January 1st businesses will face full customs declarations and controls. Further trade hurdles will be phased in after that.

 

Export health certificates for animal food products will be introduced in July.'


They took our jobs!

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7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

There had, indeed, been a spike in wages in the sectors you choose to acknowledge.

The millions of workers you choose to ignore are getting yet another real-terms pay cut.

Had indeed, obviously not all sectors but haulage, agriculture, poultry factory's, warehouse workers, even Amazon have increased wages due to labour shortages. All are mainly low paid traditionally labour voting areas. The areas where there have been no increases of yet are still experiencing labour shortages so workers are in those areas are in a stronger position.

 

We now find ourselves in the bizzare situation where some Labour commentators are sympathetic to billionaire poultry factory owners because they are struggling to fill vacancies and Brexit has forced their hand to give workers pay rises. The obvious example is the story of a lorry driver who hadn't has a pay rise for twenty years seeing his rate rise by up to 40%. The workers yet to receive pay rises ( and I agree Angry, millions haven't) are now in a stronger position to demand employers appreciate their labour than they have been for decades, simple case of supply and demand, labour over capital and labour has the upper hand.

 

If we, collectively as a country have to endure some food shortages and minor inconveniences to finally appreciate the value of Haulage/warehouse/food factory/agricultural/hospitality workers etc then sorry but tough. 

 

Large parts of the Labour movement (that was supposed to be set up to champion and promote the case of low paid workers) seem very lukewarm now low paid workers are being delt a stronger hand through Brexit, which is probably why the Tories are so far ahead in the polls and will once again unfortunately walk the next election.

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18 hours ago, Tj hooker said:

Hurrah freedom at last my new BLUE  passport has turned up this is the real Brexit bonus 

20211001_133736.jpg

And just look at the craftmanship on that. France's most cost-effective. 

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3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:


Aren’t they made in Poland now?

 

I think the contract started last year.

Aye you're right, by a French-Dutch company. 

 

Good to know there's sunlit uplands somewhere, they're in the EU!

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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/01/overseas-food-and-fuel-drivers-to-get-visas-in-major-u-turn-by-boris-johnson

 

What's going on?

Extending visas for all those cheap Eastern Europeans to save our Christmas?

The irony is off the scale here. Thought the good ol' English lads would have been jumping at all the opportunities now that there's wage rises everywhere according to Gnasher. 

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2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Had indeed, obviously not all sectors but haulage, agriculture, poultry factory's, warehouse workers, even Amazon have increased wages due to labour shortages. All are mainly low paid traditionally labour voting areas. The areas where there have been no increases of yet are still experiencing labour shortages so workers are in those areas are in a stronger position.

 

We now find ourselves in the bizzare situation where some Labour commentators are sympathetic to billionaire poultry factory owners because they are struggling to fill vacancies and Brexit has forced their hand to give workers pay rises. The obvious example is the story of a lorry driver who hadn't has a pay rise for twenty years seeing his rate rise by up to 40%. The workers yet to receive pay rises ( and I agree Angry, millions haven't) are now in a stronger position to demand employers appreciate their labour than they have been for decades, simple case of supply and demand, labour over capital and labour has the upper hand.

 

If we, collectively as a country have to endure some food shortages and minor inconveniences to finally appreciate the value of Haulage/warehouse/food factory/agricultural/hospitality workers etc then sorry but tough. 

 

Large parts of the Labour movement (that was supposed to be set up to champion and promote the case of low paid workers) seem very lukewarm now low paid workers are being delt a stronger hand through Brexit, which is probably why the Tories are so far ahead in the polls and will once again unfortunately walk the next election.

Do you genuinley believe the reason the likes of johnson and Farage pushed for Brexit was so the low paid could have pay rises,?

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6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Do you genuinley believe the reason the likes of johnson and Farage pushed for Brexit was so the low paid could have pay rises,?

No, but they inadvertently let the Genie out of the bottle. I do believe however Cummings factored it in and knew it'd confuse and split the left, especially in the North, which it has. Its good for Labour Cummings is gone.

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