Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Pidge]

2 hours ago, Anubis said:

 

Turned out to be quite the ticklist.

"We just have to make it work"

 

*Refuses to take any action to make it work*

[Captain Willard]

There’s zero chance of a second referendum. The uk unwritten constitution does not accommodate referendum hence the chaos after the Brexit vote. Even if we sorted that, there is no appetite amongst Tory MPs to take this idea to their constituents and the EU would probably insist we joined the Euro. The only way to get a vote on rejoining is if the Labour comes off the fence and commits itself to a second referendum then wins the general election. 

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, Anubis said:

 

Turned out to be quite the ticklist.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

There’s zero chance of a second referendum. The uk unwritten constitution does not accommodate referendum hence the chaos after the Brexit vote. 

That makes no sense.

 

We've accommodated two referenda on EU membership, plus a Scotland-only referendum on independence. We could accommodate another one (although I see no prospect of a "rejoin" victory for at least a generation). The chaos since 2016 was totally avoidable, if someone other than the right wing of the Tory Party had been steering the process.

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Arniepie said:

I wonder if the penny will ever drop?

 

The penny's dropped quite a lot since we left the EU.

[Bruce Spanner]

Just been on Das Spiegal, La Figaro and Le Monde and the only mention of an energy crisis is an article about Johnson destroying the UK.

 

Also, no mention of food shortages.

 

Odd that.

 

Calamity and chaos follows this cretin everywhere he goes and enables this deluded 'world king' fever dream with us all the victim of this massive dickheads entitlement and antiquated class system.

[Bruce Spanner]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

The penny's dropped quite a lot since we left the EU.

 

Down to it's lowest in a long time today, rejoice!

 

Will soon be down to groat value.

[No2]

6 minutes ago, Pidge said:

I don't think we would, most of the most impactful elements are statutory parts of membership. Our capital in terms of parliamentary influence is much lower, but for regulation we would still have the best people in the continent. The currency would be the possible thing they target, but if they did that we'd vote to not rejoin and I don't think that makes sense to anyone.

The EU wouldn't have the UK back. The constant threat of the UK leaving has now materialised, the losses have been factored in and its time to move on. If the UK came back talk of leaving would start again within months.

[Captain Willard]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That makes no sense.

 

We've accommodated two referenda on EU membership, plus a Scotland-only referendum on independence. We could accommodate another one (although I see no prospect of a "rejoin" victory for at least a generation). The chaos since 2016 was totally avoidable, if someone other than the right wing of the Tory Party had been steering the process.

Referenda don’t fit with Parliamentary sovereignty when MPs don’t agree with the result. You cannot force it through against the wishes of the house. This was what caused all the chaos previously. The Torres cut through it by not putting up candidates who disagreed with Brexit. 

[Strontium]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Down to it's lowest in a long time today, rejoice!

 

Will soon be down to groat value.

 

Parity with the chocolate button.

[Pidge]

17 minutes ago, No2 said:

The EU wouldn't have the UK back. The constant threat of the UK leaving has now materialised, the losses have been factored in and its time to move on. If the UK came back talk of leaving would start again within months.

If there's a way to incorporate the (still) world's 6th largest economy into their trading block, it would happen.

[Pidge]

43 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

There’s zero chance of a second referendum. The uk unwritten constitution does not accommodate referendum hence the chaos after the Brexit vote. Even if we sorted that, there is no appetite amongst Tory MPs to take this idea to their constituents and the EU would probably insist we joined the Euro. The only way to get a vote on rejoining is if the Labour comes off the fence and commits itself to a second referendum then wins the general election. 

I'm not saying whether it's likely or not, I'm just saying I am actively in favour of it. This is not an earth-shattering statement as I would have passively been beforehand. 

 

Basically I've gone from "we should have stayed in" to "we should rejoin".

 

I can officially now look forward to getting into a million arguments about this down the local.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Referenda don’t fit with Parliamentary sovereignty when MPs don’t agree with the result. You cannot force it through against the wishes of the house. This was what caused all the chaos previously. The Torres cut through it by not putting up candidates who disagreed with Brexit. 

Before the 2017 General Election, there was a Parliamentary majority in support of Brexit. There was nothing constitutional in the way, just the wreckers on the right wing of the Tory Party who insisted on the most destructive form of Brexit.

[Arniepie]

Who would have thought that a plan pushed through by political heavyweights like nigel farage,paul nuttall,boris johnson and jacob reece mogg would go tits up so quickly?

 

Shocked I am.

[Section_31]

44 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Just been on Das Spiegal, La Figaro and Le Monde and the only mention of an energy crisis is an article about Johnson destroying the UK.

 

Also, no mention of food shortages.

 

Odd that.

 

Calamity and chaos follows this cretin everywhere he goes and enables this deluded 'world king' fever dream with us all the victim of this massive dickheads entitlement and antiquated class system.

 

Yep, we deserve it though surely? As I always say, it's not like he's an unknown quantity. 

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Yep, we deserve it though surely? As I always say, it's not like he's an unknown quantity. 

Oh, yeah it wasn’t as if this wasn’t telegraphed and ‘we’ deserve the fall out from this farce.

 

36% of the eligible voters in this country have a lot to fucking answer to for not seeing what an absolute sham this chancer is.

[Captain Willard]

46 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Before the 2017 General Election, there was a Parliamentary majority in support of Brexit. There was nothing constitutional in the way, just the wreckers on the right wing of the Tory Party who insisted on the most destructive form of Brexit.

I don't think there was ever a consensus in Parliament on what form of Brexit was actually agreed in the referendum. This is the trouble with trying to boil down complex questions to yes or no answers, subsequently it can be shaped by politicians to be what ever they want it to be. 

 

Brexit will now become a totem pole for every ill that happens in this country without any evidence.  For example, this weeks surge in European gas prices has been caused in part by the Russians diverting a bigger % of gas to Asia as factories work overtime to make up loss Covid production and also interestingly by the drought in South America that has reduced hydro capacity and forced them to buy more LNG. (Worst Drought in 91 Years Turns Brazil Into Hot Spot for LNG - Bloomberg).

 

This is a European wide problem (European governments weigh billions in aid to weather soaring gas prices | Financial Times (ft.com)

 

Neither of these will be seen as a factor though, Remainers are already blaming it on Brexit and if we hadn't left none of this would have happened (presumably including South American droughts). This narrative will go on for years now on every issue. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I don't think there was ever a consensus in Parliament on what form of Brexit was actually agreed in the referendum. This is the trouble with trying to boil down complex questions to yes or no answers, subsequently it can be shaped by politicians to be what ever they want it to be. 

Well, yeah. That sort of adds weight to the argument that the Referendum was a fucking stupid idea to start with.

 

As for blaming various shocks and crises on Brexit, it's true that public discourse has polarised badly in the last few years, with a tendency for people to either blame Brexit (or whatever other subject they're arguing about) for everything or nothing. The truth is, obviously, more complicated than that. Generally speaking, when bad shit happens, it has multiple causes and Brexit tends to aggravate it.

[Bjornebye]

Try pointing the shit storm out to a leave voter and you get called a whining remoaner.... erm yeah I'm pissed off because of you but you bury your guilty as fuck cunt head under the sand. 

[magicrat]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

The EU wouldn't have the UK back. The constant threat of the UK leaving has now materialised, the losses have been factored in and its time to move on. If the UK came back talk of leaving would start again within months.

I daresay they would like us in the single market . I don't see another referendum but if the current chaos gets worse then Labour might find it would be vote winner.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, magicrat said:

I daresay they would like us in the single market . I don't see another referendum but if the current chaos gets worse then Labour might find it would be vote winner.

Even if the current chaos gets worse, rejoining won't become a vote winner unless people are convinced that the shitshow is a result of Brexit and that it's not all worth it. With a pro-Brexit media, that's not a given.

[cloggypop]

On 17/09/2021 at 22:48, Gnasher said:

Not going to happen, right wing capitalism ain't listening to no one, look at Greece.

 

 

Meanwhile, Germany is turning left... 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-election-2021-left-party-prepared-to-join-government-under-olaf-scholz-die-linke-gregor-gysi/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1632135383

[magicrat]

56 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Even if the current chaos gets worse, rejoining won't become a vote winner unless people are convinced that the shitshow is a result of Brexit and that it's not all worth it. With a pro-Brexit media, that's not a given.

I'm talking about joining the single market not full membership. Another couple of years of this shit and it could well be a vote winner

[Megadrive Man]

14 minutes ago, magicrat said:

I'm talking about joining the single market not full membership. Another couple of years of this shit and it could well be a vote winner

 

I don't see it as a vote winner personally. The seats Labour lost at the last election were pro brexit area's so the idea that Labour is trying to undo Brexit won't win back those voters. 

[skend04]

6 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

I don't see it as a vote winner personally. The seats Labour lost at the last election were pro brexit area's so the idea that Labour is trying to undo Brexit won't win back those voters. 

I don't get this view. The election is 3/4 years away, we need to see where the country is in 2 or 3 years time before any opposition decides what they'll pursue in an election.