Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

Putting aside the emotional arguments in that article, why on earth are these third-party companies allowed to pay below minimum wage? Not just a bit under but in some instances 70% below if I've read the article right.

Good question, I honestly don't know, you'd think it'd be illegal but with the sweat shops and meat factory's bosses seem to get away with it. 

 

I'm just flagging up what I see when I see it and hopefully other people will give support to those fighting against low wages and bad working conditions, whatever the reason.

[Gnasher]

26 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

There’s another scam with these companies as they set up shell companies under an umbrella group, in tax havens, which allow them to avoid paying NI as well as tax.

 

Ionically the EU is working on ways to stamp this out whilst the UK is allowing its big outsource partners to utilise it without censure, but you know, we aren’t part of it anymore so there’s nowt you can do.

Not true again I'm afraid Bruce, their is a lot you can do. 

 

Potential workers can refuse to take up the labour offered (which is what's happening now) leading to employers to increase wages to entice staff, existing workers can obviously strike (as 2 sisters staff in Devon did last year)

 

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/devon-2-sisters-factory-hit-4028476

 

you can also support workers when they take whatever action they decide to take, even if its only calling out these firms publicly as the union representative suggests in the Ocado case.

[Bruce Spanner]

[Gnasher]

To the Spanner who said Britain’s economic growth will be the worst in the G7...from the economist..

 

Projected growth; 2021,

Japan..2.2

Germany..2.9

Eu.. 4.4%

World..5.4%

France..5.5%

Uk.. 5.8%

USA..6.0%

 

 

[skend04]

26 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

To the Spanner who said Britain’s economic growth will be the worst in the G7...from the economist..

 

Projected growth; 2021,

Japan..2.2

Germany..2.9

Eu.. 4.4%

World..5.4%

France..5.5%

Uk.. 5.8%

USA..6.0%

 

 

A great deal of that growth is post-pandemic, with works etc that were postponed now starting up again. Where's the growth from Brexit?

This is the leaving the EU thread, not how do economies recover from pandemic thread.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The context for those growth figures is, surely, that the UK economy got kicked harder in the cunt in 2020 than most others. So, for example, if a country's economy shrank by 10% one year then grows by 6% the next, you're still doing worse than a country whose economy shrank by 4% then grows by 3%.

 

On their own, those 2021 growth forecasts don't tell us whether one country is outperforming another. The more useful comparators would show each country's estimated 2021 GDP as a percentage of its 2019 GDP.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, skend04 said:

A great deal of that growth is post-pandemic, with works etc that were postponed now starting up again. Where's the growth from Brexit?

This is the leaving the EU thread, not how do economies recover from pandemic thread.

It's a response to Spanners bullshit post futher up thread where he claimed UK recovery was worst in the G7.

[Bruce Spanner]

Ok, really slowly.

 

In real terms, that means against the previous year, we will see a 6% growth, this is good, but this is against a 10% drop the previous year caused by Brexit and covid, this is bad, you following still or have you drifted off?

 

This means we have a 4% deficit still, with projection that this will be met by the end of 2022.

 

Our contraction was the largest in the G7 so that means it takes longer to get back to previous levels, then you factor in the Brexit policies which will make this more difficult, again this is bad, you see that, right?

 

Our projected growth post this is at least 3% less than most of of European neighbours and the rest of the G7 and most of the G20, this is bad especially if it is consistant over many years which is what is being projected, so we seee real drops against our competitors year on year, again this is bad.

 

So, you can take these short term 'boosterish' wins, but the overall picture for us is still of a country which will be underperforming against previous results and our competitors with no incentive for them to help us out with futuire growth.

 

You are really not good at this economics lark.

 

Here is evidence https://www.niesr.ac.uk/sites/default/files/publications/UK outlook Summer 2021.pdf

 

Here is some more https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO

 

These are not just random twitter threads .

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The context for those growth figures is, surely, that the UK economy got kicked harder in the cunt in 2020 than most others. So, for example, if a country's economy shrank by 10% one year then grows by 6% the next, you're still doing worse than a country whose economy shrank by 4% then grows by 3%.

 

On their own, those 2021 growth forecasts don't tell us whether one country is outperforming another. The more useful comparators would show each country's estimated 2021 GDP as a percentage of its 2019 GDP.

As I just explained its a response to Bruce futher up the thread.

 

Anyway you can't deny those growth forecasts are pretty good whatever the context, to argue otherwise is plain silly.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Ok, really slowly.

 

In real terms, that means against the previous year, we will see a 6% growth, this is good, but this is against a 10% drop the previous year caused by Brexit and covid, this is bad, you following still or have you drifted off?

 

This means we have a 4% deficit still, with projection that this will be met by the end of 2022.

 

Our contraction was the largest in the G7 so that means it takes longer to get back to previous levels, then you factor in the Brexit policies which will make this more difficult, again this is bad, you see that, right?

 

Our projected growth post this is at least 3% less than most of of European neighbours and the rest of the G7 and most of the G20, this is bad especially if it is consistant over many years which is what is being projected, so we seee real drops against our competitors year on year, again this is bad.

 

So, you can take these short term 'boosterish' wins, but the overall picture for us is still of a country which will be underperforming against previous results and our competitors with no incentive for them to help us out with futuire growth.

 

You are really not good at this economics lark.

 

Here is evidence https://www.niesr.ac.uk/sites/default/files/publications/UK outlook Summer 2021.pdf

 

Here is some more https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO

 

These are not just random twitter threads .

So in short your "uk has worst recovery in the world" statement was indeed a load of bullshit now I've presented the data which you conveniently ommited. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

As I just explained its a response to Bruce futher up the thread.

 

Anyway you can't deny those growth forecasts are pretty good whatever the context, to argue otherwise is plain silly.

On the contrary, to claim any figures taken out of context are either good or bad is the height of silliness: without context, they are meaningless.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

So in short your "uk has worst recovery in the world" statement was indeed a load of bullshit now I've presented the data which you conveniently ommited. 

Genuine idiot.

 

Beyond help.

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

On the contrary, to claim any figures taken out of context are either good or bad is the height of silliness: without context, they are meaningless.

Well Britain was until recently still in the EU. Our growth last year was approx on par to Germany and France..  

 

The bottom line is uk growth is about as much a worry as our 2% inflation rate, non existent, I'd be more concerned with Geronimo being shot tbh and I'm not particularly bothered over that.

 

 

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Genuine idiot.

 

Beyond help.

You've been exposed as a Brucey Bullshiter, it's why you didn't/couldn't provide data to back your outlandish claims, have some more info, try and read this one... its good news, it'll cheer you up,

 

https://www.export.org.uk/news/559665/IMF-predicts-the-UK-is-on-course-for-faster-growth-than-the-United-States-and-the-EU.htm

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You've been exposed as a Brucey Bullshiter, it's why you didn't/couldn't provide data to back your outlandish claims, have some more info, try and read this one... its good news, it'll cheer you up,

 

https://www.export.org.uk/news/559665/IMF-predicts-the-UK-is-on-course-for-faster-growth-than-the-United-States-and-the-EU.htm

 

I'm quoting your stats your fucking moron, the ones you have been throwing about without understanding the context of.

 

I have to believe now that you're just a troll at this point as nobody could be this dense in reality.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some useful context on economic growth post-Covid.

"COVID-19 recovery: some economies will take longer to rebound – this is bad for everyone" https://theconversation.com/amp/covid-19-recovery-some-economies-will-take-longer-to-rebound-this-is-bad-for-everyone-162023

 

Tl;dr - "It's complicated."

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I'm quoting your stats your fucking moron, the ones you have been throwing about without understanding the context of.

 

I have to believe now that you're just a troll at this point as nobody could be this dense in reality.

You stated the UK would suffer the worst recovery, you lied. The UK will not have the worst recovery because I've provided the experts predicted growth which says the opposite. 

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Some useful context on economic growth post-Covid.

"COVID-19 recovery: some economies will take longer to rebound – this is bad for everyone" https://theconversation.com/amp/covid-19-recovery-some-economies-will-take-longer-to-rebound-this-is-bad-for-everyone-162023

 

Tl;dr - "It's complicated."

It certainly is, thanks for at least providing some data instead of throwing around nonsensical claims like Bruce. The UK will not suffer more than most other countries regarding recovery, as Spanhead claimed, far from it.  "The UK and US have the highest projected growth rates"

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Some useful context on economic growth post-Covid.

"COVID-19 recovery: some economies will take longer to rebound – this is bad for everyone" https://theconversation.com/amp/covid-19-recovery-some-economies-will-take-longer-to-rebound-this-is-bad-for-everyone-162023

 

Tl;dr - "It's complicated."

FWIW, the German economy is expected to reach 2019 levels six months before UK.

"Why the UK economy looks well placed for a post-pandemic recovery | EY UK" https://www.ey.com/en_uk/growth/ey-item-club/why-the-uk-economy-looks-well-placed-for-a-post-pandemic-recover

 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

FWIW, the German economy is expected to reach 2019 levels six months before UK.

"Why the UK economy looks well placed for a post-pandemic recovery | EY UK" https://www.ey.com/en_uk/growth/ey-item-club/why-the-uk-economy-looks-well-placed-for-a-post-pandemic-recover

 

Even your article (good article that) contradicts Spanner.

 

It's about the time in the day when a few of your mates come along with memes of WWF wrestlers or monkeys banging symbols to enrich the thread isn't it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Here's another decent read on why economic forecasting, now more than ever, is a bugger of a job - and why it might not be time to start singing"Nothing But Blue Skies" just yet.

 

"UK recovery built on fragile consumer confidence" https://amp.ft.com/content/ac13a974-ef0c-43a4-a777-c6f7e031f6e9

[Bruce Spanner]

‘The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.’

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Here's another decent read on why economic forecasting, now more than ever, is a bugger of a job - and why it might not be time to start singing"Nothing But Blue Skies" just yet.

 

"UK recovery built on fragile consumer confidence" https://amp.ft.com/content/ac13a974-ef0c-43a4-a777-c6f7e031f6e9

Yeah you're right, it is very difficult to make forecasts, that's why I don't and that's why I pulled Spanner up on one of the ridiculous ones he made up. In fact his whole post was full of inaccuracies with no evidence or links to back up his claims but he did get in a few infantile insults to keep the twelve year olds happy.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

‘The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.’

George Orwell was a patriot who would've been against the EU.

 

Anyway "the evidence" on Britain's 5% plus growth has been printed before your very eyes you mad bastard.

[Gnasher]

52 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Here's another decent read on why economic forecasting, now more than ever, is a bugger of a job - and why it might not be time to start singing"Nothing But Blue Skies" just yet.

 

"UK recovery built on fragile consumer confidence" https://amp.ft.com/content/ac13a974-ef0c-43a4-a777-c6f7e031f6e9

Fuck can't read that, done all my freebies and I'm not giving money to that cunt.