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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

315 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      257
    • No
      58


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3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I was referring to tory boy and his mates saying well because they are in a rundown area bosses can pay and do what they like. 

 

It's capitalist nonsense.

 

Fuck off Degsy you thick cunt, have a beer an a spliff and calm down. The wage increases are consummate with the law of supply and demand and that, is that I'm afraid.

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7 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I know I've asked this before but is everyone on mimun wage seeing these huge increases, or is is just those sectors which are struggling with a shortage of staff?

The latter, supply an demand

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6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Whatever happened to those fuck off trade deals we were going to sign with the us the minute we left The eu btw?

We've got our country back, that should be enough, apparently 

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More on those nice people at the top of the uks chicken plants.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/27/2-sisters-food-boss-steps-down-following-meat-production-scandal

 

Some on here may argue that because most of these hell holes are situated in poor areas a blind eye should be turned to the poor pay and poor working conditions inflicted on the employees who work in them.. Well unfortunately for you, unfortunately for them but fortunately for the rest of us the political and economic veiws of the younger generation embraces socialism which means working practices like those I've highlighted on this thread to be one big almighty no-no.

 

https://www.bigissue.com/latest/social-activism/nearly-70-of-young-people-want-socialism-and-no-they-wont-grow-out-of-it/

 

No doubt the lack of chicken at fast food joints will be lazily put at the door of brexit when the obvious answer is for these hire em fire them firms to get with the times and pay more wages and improve working conditions.

 

Bottom bullet point sums it up

 

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chicken-shortage-uk-nandos_uk_611e2cb2e4b0e5b5d8e6ca33

 

 

Heres the FT journo planting the hammer firmly on the head of the nail, 

 

 

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Good, give the poor bird the year off,

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/19/chicken-producers-brexit-staff-supply-shortages-uk-immigration-jobs-eu?__twitter_impression=true

 

A more accurate appraisal would be billionaire boss of 2 sisters refuses to up pay rates to fill vacancies in meat farms, resulting in shortage of poultry.

 

Tucked away at the bottom of that article   " the working conditions are awful and the pay is worse" which as always brings us back to the solution bellow,

 

 

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Not a single pint of milk of any type in the Asda when I was in there around 5pm last night. Probably the busiest time of the week and no milk. I’m assuming this is due to the lorry drivers shortage. 

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On 19/08/2021 at 12:23, Gnasher said:

Here's a typical Brexit conundrum for Labour and the left. Below is a poultry factory in S. Wales, right in the Labour heartlands, who's Member of Parliament for many years was the late Paul Flynn, fantastic Labour politican, I was friends with his brother Michael who was a local Councillor until he sadly also passed on a few years ago.

 

Factory owner, billionaire Rajit Boparam of two sisters food company want to basically bring back overseas workers as he's finding certain aspects of the Covid/Brexit situation difficult. He mentions wage inflation. He probably supplies fast food places like Nandos who are experiencing shortages. Who does Angry and the Labour Party back in this one? The owner who has legitimate future concerns or the workers/would be workers, who are probably thinking either pay more money or billionaire owner and Nandos can go fuck themselves? 

 

I'd put my house on who Michael and his brother Paul Flynn would back in this one. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/19/chicken-producers-brexit-staff-supply-shortages-uk-immigration-jobs-eu

The Unite spokesperson at the end of that report is absolutely right to say that the issue is more about improving workers' rights, than it is about Brexit. A decent government would have legislated for such improvements when we were still in the EU.  Unfortunately, we haven't had a decent government for decades and we currently have one of the worst anti-worker shower of cunts in charge, largely on they used lies about Brexit to get into power.

 

We all need to eat less poultry, anyway.

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3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The Unite spokesperson at the end of that report is absolutely right to say that the issue is more about improving workers' rights, than it is about Brexit. A decent government would have legislated for such improvements when we were still in the EU.  Unfortunately, we haven't had a decent government for decades and we currently have one of the worst anti-worker shower of cunts in charge, largely on they used lies about Brexit to get into power.

 

We all need to eat less poultry, anyway.

Pretty much agree with every word Angry. 

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1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The Unite spokesperson at the end of that report is absolutely right to say that the issue is more about improving workers' rights, than it is about Brexit. A decent government would have legislated for such improvements when we were still in the EU.  Unfortunately, we haven't had a decent government for decades and we currently have one of the worst anti-worker shower of cunts in charge, largely on they used lies about Brexit to get into power.

 

We all need to eat less poultry, anyway.

The one thing you missed there Angry is the role of the employer in this situation. You're correct to give credit to the union rep for flagging up the low pay and dire working conditions but let's not let the Brexit issue give these people camouflage for not improving pay and conditions, which if you look at the replies on this page is the way this appears to be rolling. The support for workers on minimum wage is pretty much non existent, their is however support for billionaire factory owners.

 

Looks likely a lot of workers are going to take a lot of the flak for the oncoming shortages whilst factory owners who have had two years preparation get a free ride, look at the way the guardian headline is worded, the issue of working conditions adding to labour shortages is buried. The lazy brit worker narrative is unfortunately around  the corner, remember George Osborne and the workshy at home with the blinds closed nonsense? it's the reason I keep posting the OConner tweet about employers offering more pay if they want to recruit staff, she's an ft journo and in no way a socialist but it's just obvious common sense which is now being ignored.

 

There are poultry and food factory's like the ones in the articles I've posted all over the country, if you agree with the UK pulling out of the EU or staying in the EU is irrelevant,  these workers need to know they have our support in improving pay and conditions, simple as that really.

 

Edit; I can see a lot more of this, this is down Devon last year..

 

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/devon-2-sisters-factory-hit-4028476

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'the union will start a public campaign against Ocado if it doesn't improve pay and conditions" Good.

 

Drivers being paid less than £5 an hour to deliver stock for supermarkets. Most of these supermarkets received government handouts and made huge profits during the pandemic. The link sheds another light on the real reason for shortages of labour, these firms are refusing to pass on profits and pay a fair rate. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/21/ocado-drivers-paid-less-than-5-an-hour

 

Edit; from last month,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/24/lorry-drivers-plan-to-strike-over-low-pay-and-poor-working-conditions

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16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

At the risk of repeating myself, and that article covers some of this as you've only read the headline again.

 

We are still -500,000 jobs down on 2019 levels with 1.4/1.6m still on furlough with uncertain futures. 

 

The pound is worth 20% less than it was in 2016.

 

Our economic recovery will be the worst of the developed G7 nations, with our borrowing over 100% of GDP.

 

Inflation and all that entails is about to rise meaning real time financial hardship for millions of families already in the 'working poor category' with a further 40% of those on Universal Credit seeing the uplift disappear causing untold damage to their day to day existence.

 

The above link stresses SOME of the serious industry and money that has left the UK with new and more prohibitive legislation and regulations kicking in periodically, notably the food standards policies which we do not have the vets, let alone the infrastructure, to accommodate.

 

Ireland saw 8/9% rises, Spain saw 18%, Romania saw 26% increases, others are similar, these are just examples to illustrate how these rises are not what they seem and are nothing to do with Brexit, they have to be contextualised accordingly.

 

There's the balance, there's the context, not some half understood argument pulled out of your arse whilst trying not to be shown up for an idiot on an internet forum.

 

You were saying something about a Brexit bonus, if I remember?

 

Back on ignore, my time and sanity are worth more than this drivel.

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33 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

At the risk of repeating myself, and that article covers some of this as you've only read the headline again.

Wrong. Vacancies are up, unemployment is down, I've read it don't worry about that, have you?

Quote

 

We are still -500,000 jobs down on 2019 levels with 1.4/1.6m still on furlough with uncertain futures. 

 

The pound is worth 20% less than it was in 2016.

 

Our economic recovery will be the worst of the developed G7 nations, with our borrowing over 100% of GDP.

Wrong again, highest in the G7

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57987091.amp

Quote

 

Inflation and all that entails is about to rise meaning real time financial hardship for millions of families already in the 'working poor category' with a further 40% of those on Universal Credit seeing the uplift disappear causing untold damage to their day to day existence.

Wrong yet again, Inflation is 2%, possibly rising to 4%. Americas is 5.5%. Your scaremongering. If you're really concerned over a possible 4% inflation rate maybe the Labour Party is not really the home for you, I'd suggest your more in line with the policy's of Change UK.

 

Universal Credit loses are indeed going to cause untold hardship, you got that bit right although I'm not sure why you plucked that out of your arse, thats a government decision which has nothing to do with the subject matter, so you're using cuts in Universal Credit to simply score points on a message board, nice.

Quote

The above link stresses SOME of the serious industry and money that has left the UK with new and more prohibitive legislation and regulations kicking in periodically, notably the food standards policies which we do not have the vets, let alone the infrastructure, to accommodate.

 

Ireland saw 8/9% rises, Spain saw 18%, Romania saw 26% increases, others are similar, these are just examples to illustrate how these rises are not what they seem and are nothing to do with Brexit, they have to be contextualised accordingly.

 

There's the balance, there's the context, not some half understood argument pulled out of your arse whilst trying not to be shown up for an idiot on an internet forum.

 

You were saying something about a Brexit bonus, if I remember?

 

Back on ignore, my time and sanity are worth more than this drivel.

Go press that button Bruce, good lad.

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21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Wrong. Vacancies are up, unemployment is down, I've read it don't worry about that, have you?

Wrong again, highest in the G7

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57987091.amp

Wrong yet again, Inflation is 2%, possibly rising to 4%. Americas is 5.5%. Your scaremongering. If you're really concerned over a possible 4% inflation rate maybe the Labour Party is not really the home for you, I'd suggest your more in line with the policy's of Change UK.

 

Universal Credit loses are indeed going to cause untold hardship, you got that bit right although I'm not sure why you plucked that out of your arse, thats a government decision which has nothing to do with the subject matter, so you're using cuts in Universal Credit to simply score points on a message board, nice.

Go press that button Bruce, good lad.


You really are fucking dim and have just ignored the full evidence and found a couple of things which you think prove your point, they don’t, reread them, they go on to the historical detail and wider points which you gleefully ignore.

 

Non of the above is in any way contextualised or legitimate analysis/understanding. You are pulling random statistics out without historical trends or comparative data. I assume this is through ignorance of the wider trends and patterns, you do you if it makes you feel better.

 

Mad that you believe you’re on the right side of history here, you’re being a useful fool.

 

Goodbye Gnasher, enjoy the delusion and ignorance and I hope that when it finally dawns on you we’ve been sold up the river you haven’t pissed off everybody you know with this nonsense.

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16 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:


You really are fucking dim and have just ignored the full evidence and found a couple of things which you think prove your point, they don’t, reread them, they go on to the historical detail and wider points which you gleefully ignore.

 

Non of the above is in any way contextualised or legitimate analysis/understanding. You are pulling random statistics out without historical trends or comparative data. I assume this is through ignorance of the wider trends and patterns, you do you if it makes you feel better.

 

Mad that you believe you’re on the right side of history here, you’re being a useful fool.

 

Goodbye Gnasher, enjoy the delusion and ignorance and I hope that when it finally dawns on you we’ve been sold up the river you haven’t pissed off everybody you know with this nonsense.

Goodbye Bruce, you keep pushing your moneterist economic policys on the wider electorate and see how it's works at the next election. 

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15 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/21/ocado-drivers-paid-less-than-5-an-hour

 

I put my hands up. These pay rises appear to be happening across the board...

Putting aside the emotional arguments in that article, why on earth are these third-party companies allowed to pay below minimum wage? Not just a bit under but in some instances 70% below if I've read the article right.

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14 minutes ago, Moo said:

Putting aside the emotional arguments in that article, why on earth are these third-party companies allowed to pay below minimum wage? Not just a bit under but in some instances 70% below if I've read the article right.


There’s another scam with these companies as they set up shell companies under an umbrella group, in tax havens, which allow them to avoid paying NI as well as tax.

 

Ironically the EU is working on ways to stamp this out whilst the UK is allowing its big outsource partners to utilise it without censure, but you know, we aren’t part of it anymore so there’s nowt you can do.

 

The numbers might be wrong, but the description isn’t. So, if you have less than a  hundred employees you get tax relief on NI, meaning you don’t pay it effectively. So these big outsourcing companies have set up thousands upon thousands of these companies and then outsource workers to these companies, from the already outsourced work, and charge finders fees, admin fees etc and register them in tax havens to avoid tax on them, but this allows for write downs against the holding/main company and a total avoidance of NI culpability.
 

Double whammy of shitcuntism.
 

 

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