Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Who?  Who is upset by pay rises?

Hmm, well I'm glad you're not upset Angry because bespite what a few say on here the evidence has become overwhelming, even former remainers are admitting they got it wrong..

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/16/uk-wage-growth-at-new-decade-high.html

[deiseach]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Who?  Who is upset by pay rises?

Dude, why do you bother?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Where have I blamed other workers? 

No blame on the EU workers... but thank fuck they've gone because they were holding us Brits back!

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

You forgot 'paint drinker' in that little tirade Angry.... seems to be the latest in vogue insult. 

I'm not (often) into gratuitous insults.  I just think that anyone celebrating this slight & temporary increase in some people's wages as if it's a vindication of Brexit (as "delivered" by the right wing of the Tory Party) is falling for a classic divide-and-rule con trick.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Hmm, well I'm glad you're not upset Angry because bespite what a few say on here the evidence has become overwhelming, even former remainers are admitting they got it wrong..

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/16/uk-wage-growth-at-new-decade-high.html

What was the average increase in wage? What was the figure without bonuses? Is this including all workers at all levels? 
 

Thought this was the most telling bit.
 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Hmm, well I'm glad you're not upset Angry because bespite what a few say on here the evidence has become overwhelming, even former remainers are admitting they got it wrong..

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/16/uk-wage-growth-at-new-decade-high.html

That's two years old, before Brexit. 

 

You said that people on here were upset by pay rises (and I assume you mean this year's pay rises).  I've not seen anybody upset by that.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19467004.retailers-blame-brexit-food-shortages-sweep-across-scotlands-stores/

Fantastic, makes supermarket bosses (who recorded hugh profits during the pandemic let's not forget) appreciate their lower paid workforce, hopefully it'll also makes the general public appreciate their worth too.

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's two years old, before Brexit. 

 

You said that people on here were upset by pay rises (and I assume you mean this year's pay rises).  I've not seen anybody upset by that.

 

20 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

What was the average increase in wage? What was the figure without bonuses? Is this including all workers at all levels? 
 

Thought this was the most telling bit.
 

That's entirely to do with our government making them decisions not with the process of Brexit itself. I don't think bosses are in any position to sack workers anytime soon. 

[Moo]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Fantastic, makes supermarket bosses (who recorded hugh profits during the pandemic let's not forget) appreciate their lower paid workforce, hopefully it'll also makes the general public appreciate their worth too.

Why would food shortages, because of a lack of drivers and a lack of produce entering from the EU, make UK supermarket bosses appreciate their shop and warehouse staff more? 

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No blame on the EU workers... but thank fuck they've gone because they were holding us Brits back!

I'm not (often) into gratuitous insults.  I just think that anyone celebrating this slight & temporary increase in some people's wages as if it's a vindication of Brexit (as "delivered" by the right wing of the Tory Party) is falling for a classic divide-and-rule con trick.

These wage rises are a fucking godsend to an awful lot of people stuck on the bottom of the ladder Angry, you may think it's all a bit meh but to them it's a long overdue lifeline. Ie I saw one report where a late teen, early 20s year old girl, lives in a flat down Bristol with her nan, has a toddler (sort of a female Del boy situation) she's had a bonus and a pay rise from some restaurant she works and she's planning to buy a car and take her kid and nan out and about, she looked a nice kid and she's fucking buzzing, it's a plus for the whole family. How many more like her across the country? These are traditional Labour voting families Angry. 

 

I know what you mean about the tories and tories do what tories do. Amost every worthwhile economist and balanced political analysts are now under no illusions free movement DID drive down the wages of low skilled workers.That argument is over, the ones still denying it are like Japanese fighters wandering around in the jungle after the war unable to except the new reality.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

What is the wage rise increase from and to Gnasher?

 

Does it go in line with inflation? 
 

 

[Gnasher]

37 minutes ago, Moo said:

Why would food shortages, because of a lack of drivers and a lack of produce entering from the EU, make UK supermarket bosses appreciate their shop and warehouse staff more? 

Er because without these workers the shelves wouldn't get filled? Workers often get taken for granted.

 

Do you think Tesco have bunged these lorry drivers a couple of quid out of the goodness of their heart? 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Er because without these workers the shelves wouldn't get filled? Workers often get taken for granted.

 

Do you think Tesco have bunged these lorry drivers a couple of quid out of the goodness of their heart? 

If no deliveries are being made, what are they filling?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

What is the wage rise increase from and to Gnasher?

 

Does it go in line with inflation? 
 

 

Wage increases are obviously fluctuating between different sectors and different parts of the country.

 

I note Merseyside has low increases in the hospitality sector compared to the rest of the country, particularly Manchester, I've no idea why this should be.

 

As for inflation, better have some inflation and higher wages than be a low pay low inflation economy.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

If no deliveries are being made, what are they filling?

Tesco make sure they have plenty of work to do, don't worry about that. It's a massive exaggeration to say "no" deliveries are being made. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Tesco make sure they have plenty of work to do, don't worry about that. It's a massive exaggeration to say "no" deliveries are being made. 

I’ll be honest I’ve not see that in Mather Ave, but there are reports of stores elsewhere that deliveries are not being made of certain foods. That Co-Op article talks about how it’s all Co-Op branded water filling the water shelves. That points to no deliveries being made outside of their own brand. That’s a concern.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I’ll be honest I’ve not see that in Mather Ave, but there are reports of stores elsewhere that deliveries are not being made of certain foods. That Co-Op article talks about how it’s all Co-Op branded water filling the water shelves. That points to no deliveries being made outside of their own brand. That’s a concern.

I haven't been up to Liverpool to see fam since before the pandemic so I wouldn't know, tbh I haven't been many places since the pandemic, I had to go Bristol and Bath last week and hope to get about more soon. 

 

Yeah it is worrying but it'd all through a lack of government foresight,  it'll maybe iron itself out when furlough ends but with the profits supermarkets are making since the pandemic I doubt if they'll be closing stores.

 

I can't figure out why Merseyside is not seeing the wage rises of other areas in areas such as hospitality, especially compared to Manchester, I had a chart ii one of the links i posted but can't find it now and going out in a bit.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Amost every worthwhile economist and balanced political analysts are now under no illusions free movement DID drive down the wages of low skilled workers.That argument is over

That's not true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html

 

[Gnasher]

Fucking hell it gets worse, Milk shortages now, it should be OK I've got a bit of powdered stuff in the cupboard somewhere, anyway seems the media are over dramatising again as only 10% will not hit the shops..

 

Oh and some firms now giving workers 2 grand bonus payments... 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-milk-shortage-arla-b1893690.html

 

 

[Gnasher]

27 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's not true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html

 

I did say "almost" so it is true. You're always going to get one going against the grain and wah heh that's the one we'll discuss.

 

I actually read that article from the Indie just now Angry and it's ahh very very trying it's best not to be dragged across the threshold, although whilst i don't agree with the author he does not deny their are fundamental work/wage changes happening throughout the country right now. As I say, don't agree with him but at least he's got the bollocks not to deny something not witnessed for a long time is happening, and the vast majority of sensible journos seem to be welcoming of the re weighting of the scales and believe its a good thing.

 

Edit., the links I send are not from the Daily Express of Telegraph, I can't vouch for all but most are from reputable mainly remain journalists. This authors data seems to have come from the thoughts of one man John Portas, the full Migration report meanwhile is far more thorough.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I did say "most" so it is true.

 

I actually read that article from the Indie just now Angry and it's ahh very very trying it's best not to be dragged across the threshold, although whilst i don't agree with the author he does not deny their are fundamental work/wage changes happening throughout the country right now. As I say, don't agree with him but at least he's got the bollocks not to deny something not witnessed for a long time is happening, and the vast majority of sensible journos seem to be welcoming of the re weighting of the scales and believe its a good thing.

I know what you said. 

 

I provided a link to an economist saying (really unsurprisingly) that economists want to see data before drawing conclusions.   If you've got any links to "most" economists saying "bollocks to data - some haulage firms are offering payrises, so that must mean the Sunlit Uplands are here to stay" please share.

[Gnasher]

30 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I know what you said. 

 

I provided a link to an economist saying (really unsurprisingly) that economists want to see data before drawing conclusions.   If you've got any links to "most" economists saying "bollocks to data - some haulage firms are offering payrises, so that must mean the Sunlit Uplands are here to stay" please share.

Why are you saying "some haulage firms" and downplaying other wage rises, as if they're irrelevant to you, these are the poorest people in society Angry, it's as if you can't abide them having a wage rise. It's not just haulage Angry, as I've read your link (some good points, but from one economist) you've obviously ignored mine...

 

This is from actual tax data so not a guess, anyway are you really still denying these rises are happening throughout the country??. I gave you the real life story of the Bristol kid you works in hospitality, had a wage rise and was interviewed on some news show, seems these are the type of people you are now throwing under the bus to protect the dignity of your beloved EU, the rises are real Angry..

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-hiring-surged-june-economy-reopened-ons-2021-07-15/

 

 

https://cebr.com/reports/the-times-labour-shortage-is-forcing-pay-up-but-how-long-can-it-last/

[Stickman]

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Those mad racist bastards at the Express really can't help themselves.  It's like the lies about bendy/straight bananas were a gateway drug and now they can't kick the hard lies.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1469218/eu-news-uk-france-england-brexit-new-region-marine-le-pen-macron-spt

In 2011, senior Tories revealed the details of an EU plan to “carve up Britain” by setting up a cross-Channel region.

If approved, the project would have seen southern England and northern France merged into a territory called “Arch Manche” complete with its own flag.

It would have also "wiped the UK off the map"...

The former Communities Secretary [Eric bastard Pickles] said: “Labour ministers have been caught red-handed conspiring with European bureaucrats to wipe England off the map and replace our historic ­boroughs, counties and cities with transnational euro-regions.

“Massive amounts of taxpayers’ money are being wasted on vanity projects.

“I intend to fight these plans, stop this waste and protect England’s national and local identities from EU empire building.”

 

The reality - some coastal regions consulted each other on potential areas of cooperation - was a little less likely to make anybody piss their Union Jack knickers.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 it's as if you can't abide them having a wage rise.

 

No.

 

It.

 

Fucking.

 

Isn't.

 

 

No sane, honest person could conclude the shite you're spouting.

[Moo]

8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Er because without these workers the shelves wouldn't get filled? Workers often get taken for granted.

 

Do you think Tesco have bunged these lorry drivers a couple of quid out of the goodness of their heart? 

I asked about product shortages in relation to shop workers and warehouse staff, so is it fair to assume your post suggesting there will be more appreciation was referring only to drivers?

It seems a limited scope.