Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

God.; people actually arguing against low paid workers finally getting a much needed pay rise. 

Literally nobody is doing that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

36 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"Jobs will be lost" their is a massive labour shortage Angry, its leading to inflation busting pay rises for low paid workers and its not changing anytime soon..

The labour shortage will only last as long as those businesses do. When supermarkets start buying elsewhere, because those businesses can't deliver, those businesses will go under and jobs will be lost.

[Rico1304]

5 minutes ago, Moo said:

Okay we'll see how that pans out.

 

And I wonder (not directly aimed at you, just a general thought), how long until benefit rules are changed so that those on jobseekers allowance can be forced in to filling the vacancies at minimum wage, irrespective of suitability, in order to benefit business? 

Sounds like a *dream/nightmare (*delete as applicable).

Brexit, one of the ultimate pyrrhic victories.

But something about slaves. 
 

I find it amazing that when most of the protections are removed anyone could thing that the new rules will be better for anyone else other than the people making the new rules. It’s fucking mental. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The labour shortage will only last as long as those businesses do. When supermarkets start buying elsewhere, because those businesses can't deliver, those businesses will go under and jobs will be lost.

He won’t get this. 

[Gnasher]

More stupendously unsurprising news,,

 

 

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/06/15/eu-worker-shortages-driving-up-london-labour-rates/

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The labour shortage will only last as long as those businesses do. When supermarkets start buying elsewhere, because those businesses can't deliver, those businesses will go under and jobs will be lost.

Aw you're worried about buisness now!! fucking hell you're sounding like a tory before an election saying think of the poor businesses if Labour get in. I'm sure Tesco will manage to pull through Angry, don't lose unnecessary sleep.

[Rico1304]

I peeked and maybe the Labour Party isn’t the natural home for people earning £50k yr. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

44 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I do disagree with it, supermarkets are really struggling to fill front of shop, warehouse and haulage staff, if a major shop wants to try to slash wages they've no hope of attracting workers.

Yay! It's a golden age for well-paid decent jobs!

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

17 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yay! It's a golden age for well-paid decent jobs!

 

 

One of the reasons Osbourne had the school age extended to 18 was so these figures wouldn’t look as bad.

 

No additional ideas, or training happened. The fact that skills based apprenticeships have declined is a real scandal and depressing and deprived the most in need. 

 

Just an expectation that kids needed to be taught for longer so the unemployment figures weren’t as bad, no plan beyond that,

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Aw you're worried about buisness now!! fucking hell you're sounding like a tory before an election saying think of the poor businesses if Labour get in. I'm sure Tesco will manage to pull through Angry, don't lose unnecessary sleep.

Fucksake. Please try to think. This isn’t hard to understand. 

 

Not all businesses are as big as Tesco and all the other Tory-donating millionaires.  More people work for the small businesses that supply the likes of Tesco; when Tesco start buying elsewhere (as they inevitably will) jobs will be lost.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Aw you're worried about buisness now!! fucking hell you're sounding like a tory before an election saying think of the poor businesses if Labour get in. I'm sure Tesco will manage to pull through Angry, don't lose unnecessary sleep.

You need to explain how you can have decent employment without employers. (Or farm jobs without farms.)

 

I mean, self-employment is OK for some, but it's really not secure.

[Gnasher]

More bad news, more pay rises on the way,

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57008199.amp

[Gnasher]

45 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You need to explain how you can have decent employment without employers. (Or farm jobs without farms.)

 

I mean, self-employment is OK for some, but it's really not secure.

Most construction jobs are not self employed Angry, their are approx three million construction workers in the UK and most have received an above inflation pay rise which is in part due to Brexit. Its good news for working class people in traditional working class jobs.  The evidence is clear. 

 

As for the landowners/businesses/hedgefund managers/farmers etc will just have to suck it for a while. Sorry.

[Gnasher]

They were right then and they're right now, what were the11% thinking?

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

59 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Most construction jobs are not self employed Angry, their are approx three million construction workers in the UK and most have received an above inflation pay rise which is in part due to Brexit. Its good news for working class people in traditional working class jobs.  The evidence is clear. 

 

As for the landowners/businesses/hedgefund managers/farmers etc will just have to suck it for a while. Sorry.

You post shit like this then you throw a strop when people call you a moron.

 

Traditional working class jobs all along the supply chain of food production and distribution are at risk. You choose to ignore this, because... 

 

Fucked if I know why.

[Rico1304]

Can someone explain land banking to him, and how when it becomes too expensive to start a project they’ll simply wait. And they can wait for years. 

[Gnasher]

38 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You post shit like this then you throw a strop when people call you a moron.

 

Traditional working class jobs all along the supply chain of food production and distribution are at risk. You choose to ignore this, because... 

 

Fucked if I know why.

False, they are not at risk their is a massive shortage of workers in almost all sectors, bosses are crying out for labour and wages are rising. You were one of the ones still trying to deny the wages rises caused by Brexit until very recently when the evidence became so overwhelming. Its telling that the wage increases are met with little enthusiasm for the employee but concern for the great and the good, bah. 

 

Oh and you think I care about what some cunt like Rico calls me? He's the betec tory who's supposed to have me on ignore.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Can someone explain land banking to him, and how when it becomes too expensive to start a project they’ll simply wait. And they can wait for years. 

Bank off.

[Gnasher]

Building industry looking good, new orders flowing in, booming 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/construction-industry-rises-from-pandemic-with-boom-in-new-orders-sq7w25f3r

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

False, they are not at risk their is a massive shortage of workers in almost all sectors, bosses are crying out for labour and wages are rising. You were one of the ones still trying to deny the wages rises caused by Brexit until very recently when the evidence became so overwhelming. Its telling that the wage increases are met with little enthusiasm for the employee but concern for the great and the good, bah. 

It really is not false.

(Incidentally, I never denied the existence of those pay rises. I do question the degree to which they are directly attributable to Brexit  - y'know, it's more complicated than that - and I deny the suggestion that they are likely to be permanent.)

 

It is naive and short-sighted to believe that the widescale disruption caused by labour shortages in key sectors (as a result of the combination of Brexit and Covid) is going to lead to a future in which businesses will all agree to improve everyone's pay and conditions.  That's not how this country works. We've been set up to make sure workers get the shitty end of the stick for over 40 years and that's not about to change now. The likeliest outcome is that businesses throughout the food production and distribution sector will be unable to keep their biggest customers (because of the labour shortages and competition from massive foreign corporations) so they will go bust, taking their workers with them.

 

But, still, you keep wearing your rose-tinted specs and telling yourself that short-term pay increases are the only consequence of Brexit. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Building industry looking good, new orders flowing in, booming 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/construction-industry-rises-from-pandemic-with-boom-in-new-orders-sq7w25f3r

 

 

"The release of budgets that had been held back since before the pandemic".

 

So, the building industry is addressing a backlog.  This has nothing to do with Brexit. 

[Moo]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

They can't afford the haulage.

Just back to this, educate me...  

What will be different for overseas producers who are currently air freighting fresh produce to the UK, which will mean they can't afford it in the future? 

[Karl_b]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Building industry looking good, new orders flowing in, booming 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/construction-industry-rises-from-pandemic-with-boom-in-new-orders-sq7w25f3r

 

 

That's behind a paywall so I can't read it but in construction, there's a massive shortage of materials and costs are rising to a point where clients are stalling projects. The lack of skilled labour is also causing a problem. I'm one of the "3 million" in the industry and I can tell you that not everyone is seeing above inflation payrises (caveat - I did this year, if you factor in a promotion) - in fact, many are still on furlough because there isn't enough work. 

 

There is a lot of work "on the drawing board" though, I've never known it be quite so intensive in my 15 years in practice.

 

As an aside, I'd like to see a real focus on upskilling the industry and training young people to fuel a green revolution that makes the industry close to zero carbon, but we won't. We've gone back to normal to develop at all costs. 

[Rico1304]

BBC 1 now.  Wish someone would

explain to these business owners their wages are going up.  

[Gnasher]

12 hours ago, Karl_b said:

That's behind a paywall so I can't read it but in construction, there's a massive shortage of materials and costs are rising to a point where clients are stalling projects. The lack of skilled labour is also causing a problem. I'm one of the "3 million" in the industry and I can tell you that not everyone is seeing above inflation payrises (caveat - I did this year, if you factor in a promotion) - in fact, many are still on furlough because there isn't enough work. 

 

There is a lot of work "on the drawing board" though, I've never known it be quite so intensive in my 15 years in practice.

 

As an aside, I'd like to see a real focus on upskilling the industry and training young people to fuel a green revolution that makes the industry close to zero carbon, but we won't. We've gone back to normal to develop at all costs. 

You're right about material's, through the roof, not sure the reason but it would be foolish to think Brexit hasn't had an impact.

 

Your point on builders going back to tried and trusted methods is worrying, I know in Wales they push for new builds to be as green efficient as possible, same for safety, Welsh regulations mean all new build properties must have sprinkler systems etc. I would also like to think that eco friendly homes would fetch better prices and so increase demand despite the lack of regulations.

 

I have links with people who run a building employment agency in Nth London and South Wales and both have had to put up rates between 10-20% to try to meet demand. How long its substantial though is anyone's guess but rises are certainly happening in large areas of the country. 

 

I think Angry may have  point where the pause caused by covid has not only caused a bottleneck. Has Covid caused a purple patch where everyone feels re energised or people are re evaluating their lives and leaving the jobs market? . I think your point about furlough may be more the accurate reason though.