Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Numero Veinticinco]

Bad Tory Queg

[Numero Veinticinco]

Bad Tory Queg

[Pureblood]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Go back a few pages, its discussed there.

Couldn't find anything.

[Kepler-186]

59 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Ok so where are you on the following 4 questions. They are all yes or no :

 

Should agricultural land be exempt from inheritance tax ?

Should subsidies be paid to farmers irrespective of farm size/profitability ? 

Should food prices for consumers be increased to protect EU farmers from cheaper imports ?

Should the consumer be given the choice over animal husbandry standards (ie free range versus battery eggs, organic beef etc) ?

 

 

 

 

 

Good questions.

 

First up, no agricultural land shouldn’t be exempt, but it’s a moot point as the Conservative Party serve the interests of the the wealthy like Dyson, and the Duke of Westminster, who paid nothing when he got his title, so it’s not likely to change. Their tenants aren’t exempt from income tax I’d imagine. 

 

Sure, in a pure free market no subsidies would be paid, but the UK taking food from 3rd World producers just to cut the cost per unit by a few pence undermines the country’s own farmers who provide more of a function than just producing the food. They manage the land. I doubt there are even 100 small farms producing high end produce for the likes of Jamie Oliver. Most of it is hoovered up by the supermarkets, and correct me if I’m wrong, they pressure the farmers incredibly to keep things as cheap as possible. So the UK farming sector is probably at the correct scale and productivity for its size. 
 

It’s a false economy in my opinion. The shops and supermarkets have never been fuller. Year round fresh fruit and veg we never used to see even in the 80s in your local fruit and veg shop. But the stuff flown in from around the globe or shipped in comes at a massive environmental cost, so perhaps some of EU subsidies should be directed as aid to those countries to encourage as sustainable farming as possible. Hell, if there wasn’t a far right maniac in Brazil we should be paying them to manage the Amazon not cutting it down to farm cheap soy and beef. 
 

Consumer standards should be as high as possible, even pushing people to make better choices. Unfortunately people who had nannies growing up see this as the nanny state. Again, the fruit and veg section in the ASDA is dwarfed by the processed sections, and fast food adverts are everywhere. 
 

What we’ll end up with is the cheap, poorly raised meat from US and Oz for poor people who have to buy on price, and the Saturday Kitchen mob waxing lyrical about natural, grass fed beef. 
 

 

 

[mattyq]

The reason why every British Gove going back to the year . subsidises British Agriculture is simple & obvious

We import 74% of our food from the EU. If that supply route is ever turned off we'd starve to death. Literally

The other 26% gives us a modicum of security. We pay a bit more to maintain that security. If you don't believe food security is important then you're a fucking moron

[cloggypop]

8 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I dont know why you feel the need to keep insulting people ? You wouldn't talk like that if we were across a table in a  pub so why do you do it on here ? We are trying to discuss things like grown ups but you feel to need to make it like kids in a fucking playground in every thread. Its really tedious. 

I'd definitely call you a bad Tory biff to your face. Doubt it would get that far as I'd have already swerved the loud twat in a turned up collar polo talking about his Porsche and how rugby is an inherently superior sport to f**tball. 

 

 

[cloggypop]

5 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Ha ha. Well I’m at most away games south of birmingham every season so if you get a ticket feel free to come over and say hello/call me a Tory biff as you see fit. I’m the fat bald bloke ranting about agricultural subsidies (bad), legalised drugs (bad) and kidneys on a fry up (good).  

Not sure you're selling it to me really. 

 

Drugs > offal

[Mudface]

32 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

So let me get this clear, we pay £3 billion per year in farming subsidies indirectlty or directly to wealthy billionaire landowners in case there is a war with Europe ? Is that the justification ? 

 

If we stopped paying the £3 billion, UK farmers wouldn't all go out of business. The market would self correct and either food prices would go up (unlikely with post Brexit trade deals allowing global tariff free imports) or much more likely agricultural rents would reduce to keep the farm viable. The 40% inheritance tax break for the land owner is the valuable leverage which keeps them in farming and as long as that is maintained (incorrectly in my view), scrapping subsidies to their tenant farmers wont make any differance to the amount of land that is dedicated to agriculture. They are not going to suddenly take their money out of farming and expose it to 40% inheritance tax even if rents went to £0 or even negative. 

Sounds to me like you're suggesting we take back the land from these billionaire parasites. Good call.

[mattyq]

2 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

So let me get this clear, we pay £3 billion per year in farming subsidies indirectlty or directly to wealthy billionaire landowners in case there is a war with Europe ? Is that the justification ? 

 

If we stopped paying the £3 billion, UK farmers wouldn't all go out of business. The market would self correct and either food prices would go up (unlikely with post Brexit trade deals allowing global tariff free imports) or much more likely agricultural rents would reduce to keep the farm viable. The 40% inheritance tax break for the land owner is the valuable leverage which keeps them in farming and as long as that is maintained (incorrectly in my view), scrapping subsidies to their tenant farmers wont make any differance to the amount of land that is dedicated to agriculture. They are not going to suddenly take their money out of farming and expose it to 40% inheritance tax even if rents went to £0 or even negative. 

Fucking Hell

Imagine if we have something like a pandemic. Crazy, I know, and imports dry up. I'm sure you're familiar with disaster planning

Ahh, the famous market correction. Not at all a massive upheaval to our food supply during a pandemic and Brexit. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Empty shelves in supermarkets... it'd be fine. Blitz spirit, veg plots, parks ploughed up

Food prices have already gone up post Brexit. Inflation is 2.1%. 

Our ports are fucked; there's a massive shortage of drivers and logistical issues worldwide are currently big

Importing all our food is dangerous and short sighted and likely to end badly

 

[Bruce Spanner]

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, TK421 said:

Couldn't find anything.

There's a welcome (although probably temporary) increase in construction industry wages, as a result of a shortage of labour. Gnasher attributes this to Brexit  (presumably because he hasn't noticed anything else which might be hindering the free movement of workers right now).

 

That's it. That's the first discernable positive consequence of Brexit that he can come up with. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

 People like to eat cheap processed shit in this country. 

True that. All those people living in poverty despite working shitty jobs are just so happy that they don't have to put up with fresh meat, fish, fruit and veg.

[Pureblood]

I've heard they love food banks, too.  When they can get their fat asses away from their 50" plasma screens.

[Pureblood]

I'm still waiting for the part where Brexit ruins the Tories and they fall apart in disarray.  I'm sure if Brexit doesn't do it then a deadly pandemic will. 

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I'm still waiting for the part where Brexit ruins the Tories and they fall apart in disarray.  I'm sure if Brexit doesn't do it then a deadly pandemic will. 

They will use the pandemic as an excuse and get through the next election, by the time the net one comes around we will all be living on The Road 

[Pureblood]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

They will use the pandemic as an excuse and get through the next election, by the time the net one comes around we will all be living on The Road 

We'll have British fish, though.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

We'll have British fish, though.

I was trying to skate round the issue 

[Lee909]

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

Sounds to me like you're suggesting we take back the land from these billionaire parasites. Good call.

 

 

[Jose Jones]

10 hours ago, Kepler-186 said:

 

What we’ll end up with is the cheap, poorly raised meat from US and Oz for poor people who have to buy on price, and the Saturday Kitchen mob waxing lyrical about natural, grass fed beef. 
 

 

 

I think the Queen, gawd bless her, is the largest landowner down here so that would be a great win for Britain.

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

There's a welcome (although probably temporary) increase in construction industry wages, as a result of a shortage of labour. Gnasher attributes this to Brexit  (presumably because he hasn't noticed anything else which might be hindering the free movement of workers right now).

 

That's it. That's the first discernable positive consequence of Brexit that he can come up with. 

Being a tad disingenuous there Angry? Or maybe you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners you havnt given yourself time to read the links. 

 

As I've said 3 million construction workers living in the standard 3 person home means an indirect rise for approx 9 million people, most of those beneficiaries will be working/middle class. 

 

16% of construction firms are already taking on more apprenticeships, which can be a lifeline to youth growing up on housing estates or in dead end jobs.

 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

You've also chosen to ignore the added  vacancies in the service sector, again good news for thousands upon thousands of waitresses/ youngsters working in cafes/bars throughout the country.

[Gnasher]

Forgot link under last paragraph above regarding service industry workers.. heres a lib dem remain advisor correctly pointing out that brexit has been a boost for low paid workers.

 

Sixth para down..

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ed-miliband-s-brexit-embrace-isn-t-fooling-anyone

 

The main point of free movement was to flood the Labour Market to suppress pay and so increase employers profits

 

..

https://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/recruitment/salaries-increase-as-brexit-fears-reduce-in-2020/122562

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners 

Do you even read the stuff you write?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Being a tad disingenuous there Angry? Or maybe you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners you havnt given yourself time to read the links. 

 

As I've said 3 million construction workers living in the standard 3 person home means an indirect rise for approx 9 million people, most of those beneficiaries will be working/middle class. 

 

16% of construction firms are already taking on more apprenticeships, which can be a lifeline to youth growing up on housing estates or in dead end jobs.

 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

You've also chosen to ignore the added  vacancies in the service sector, again good news for thousands upon thousands of waitresses/ youngsters working in cafes/bars throughout the country.

Not disingenuous at all.

 

There is no evidence - at least, not yet -  that pay increases in construction are permanent or that staff shortages in construction and hospitality are wholly - or even mainly - attributable to Brexit. It would be disingenuous to pretend that there is evidence of that.

 

Finding a Lib Dem who shares your opinion does not count as evidence. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.

[Chairman Meow]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.