Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 it has to be in the employees favour.

It doesn't. 

 

The Government are not passive observers to this. They can easily legislate to force people into underpaid, shitty jobs (even more than they do now) - and there's no reason to believe there would be an electoral penalty for them.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes, we're talking about the immediate impacts of Brexit. 

 

The immediate impacts of Brexit do not benefit workers. Nothing that you have posted proves otherwise.  Simple assumptions about supply and demand don't stand up against actual facts (including some of the stuff you have posted on here in the last few years).

Of course a Labour shortage benefits workers!!  I'm struggling with why you'd think otherwise.

 

A Labour shortage gives jobsseekers a better chance of getting employment and gives those in work greater job security. 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It doesn't. 

 

The Government are not passive observers to this. They can easily legislate to force people into underpaid, shitty jobs (even more than they do now) - and there's no reason to believe there would be an electoral penalty for them.

Again that's down to our government not Brexit in general.

[Gnasher]

23 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

The economy has not gone back to pre-pandemic levels yet. It’s predicted to recover as people o back to normal. It has been adjusted up and can just as easily be adjusted back down. Either way, people surfing out to pubs and restaurants after being stuck in isn’t really reflective of long term health of the economy post-Brexit. I think we will wait and see. At some point the gazillions spent to keep the country afloat will have to be recouped. Let’s see how that impacts prosperity. Also, Brexit and it’s impact will be difficult to separate from pandemic impact in some areas. We have to wait and see. 

The construction industry is booming, no need to wait and see on that one and it's normally a very good indicator of how the rest of the economy will head. Major construction firms are also realising the need to increase training of young workers so again good news.

 

The doubts creep in with the question of what's fuelling the upturn. Rising house prices are a factor, people use increased equity to fund house renovations etc, the public handouts and brexit are also a factor, the former definitely so. Will it last? My guess is no but when it goes wring it won't be because of Brexit it'll be bad governance.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-pressures-on-the-rise-for-booming-construction-sector-12324740

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Of course a Labour shortage benefits workers!!  I'm struggling with why you'd think otherwise.

 

A Labour shortage gives jobsseekers a better chance of getting employment and gives those in work greater job security. 

Government exists. 

 

I'm struggling with why you're not acknowledging this.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The construction industry is booming, no need to wait and see on that one and it's normally a very good indicator of how the rest of the economy will head. Major construction firms are also realising the need to increase training of young workers so again good news.

 

The doubts creep in with the question of what's fuelling the upturn. Rising house prices are a factor, people use increased equity to fund house renovations etc, the public handouts and brexit are also a factor, the former definitely so. Will it last? My guess is no but when it goes wring it won't be because of Brexit it'll be bad governance.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-pressures-on-the-rise-for-booming-construction-sector-12324740

We have to wait and see *on the reason*. We have to wait and see on Brexit. Anybody putting upturns down to being out of the EU for 6 months is suffering from a bad case of confirmatory bias. 

[Gnasher]

16 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

We have to wait and see *on the reason*. We have to wait and see on Brexit. Anybody putting upturns down to being out of the EU for 6 months is suffering from a bad case of confirmatory bias. 

Consumer spending (probably through government handouts) are also fueling the economy. A simple case of people spending the money they've accumulated.

 

As for Brexit, I'd say it's effects are mostly seen in recruitment sector. The predicted Brexit hit to the economy hasn't happened though which in itself has added to economic confidence.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

52 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Again that's down to our government not Brexit in general.

Yes. The Tory Government exists.

 

According to the links you have posted  (repeatedly) EU migration had a minor (and sometimes positive) impact on wages and employment. Where it had a slightly negative impact was among lower-paid workers; but this wasn't a product of immigration on its own. It was a product of immigration plus Thatcherite employment laws. 

 

There is currently a shortage of migrant workers as a result of Covid and Brexit.  There are two possible policy responses to this: the Government could legislate to force employers to improve pay and conditions; or they could legislate to increase the penalties for people who refuse to accept shitty pay and conditions, thereby forcing people into exploitation. 

 

Which do you think is more likely?

[Gnasher]

26 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Government exists. 

 

I'm struggling with why you're not acknowledging this.

And so? Of course it does, who's arguing otherwise?  You seem to blame the government when it suits and give the EU a free pass on every given subject. I can't stand this government. 

 

Thatcher made it her economic strategy to put millions on the dole to give employers scope to hire and fire at will to drive down wages and increase profits. Free movement is a similar economic ploy dressed up as employee freedom. That mass Labour pool is being diminished and the results are what we are witnessing now.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

42 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The construction industry is booming, no need to wait and see on that one and it's normally a very good indicator of how the rest of the economy will head. Major construction firms are also realising the need to increase training of young workers so again good news.

 

The doubts creep in with the question of what's fuelling the upturn. Rising house prices are a factor, people use increased equity to fund house renovations etc, the public handouts and brexit are also a factor, the former definitely so. Will it last? My guess is no but when it goes wring it won't be because of Brexit it'll be bad governance.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-pressures-on-the-rise-for-booming-construction-sector-12324740

How is Brexit a factor in economic growth?

[Gnasher]

11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

How is Brexit a factor in economic growth?

Only you will fail to veiw the current jobs climate as a long needed boost to a workforce that has long been neglected. Its no wonder the Labour party are fucked, Angry you're failing to see the wood through the trees.

 

The economy requires confidence, it's imperative. 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

 

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Returning to pre-pandemic levels isn't a sign of the economy being "on the up": it's going back to square one. 

 

The coin has not flipped in terms of the balance of power between workers and bosses.  The problems (low pay, job insecurity, shitty conditions, etc.) weren't caused by EU migration, so removing it won't solve them.  As long as we have a Tory Government  (supported by an anti-worker media) workers won't get what they deserve. 

 

I think you'll find in the real world brexit is working out just fine for most employees Angry. Wages have risen sharply since the below article was printed. The last six months particularly has seen a big increase in both wages and a demand for worker's.

 

Not losing any sleep over the predicament that the likes of the ceo of Balfour Beatty finds themselves in are you?

 

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/average-pay-soars-in-construction-jobs-as-uk-loses-eu-workers-brexit-095802086.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Only you will fail to veiw the current jobs climate as a long needed boost to a workforce that has long been neglected. Its no wonder the Labour party are fucked, Angry you're failing to see the wood through the trees.

 

The economy requires confidence, it's imperative. 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

 

Not answering the question, then?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

I think you'll find in the real world brexit is working out just fine for most employees Angry. Wages have risen sharply since the below article was printed. The last six months particularly has seen a big increase in both wages and a demand for worker's.

 

Not losing any sleep over the predicament that the likes of the ceo of Balfour Beatty finds themselves in are you?

 

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/average-pay-soars-in-construction-jobs-as-uk-loses-eu-workers-brexit-095802086.html

It's so cute when you, of all people, start talking about "the real world".

 

Underlying wage growth is 2.5%. Not really "sharp" is it?

[Gnasher]

35 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's so cute when you, of all people, start talking about "the real world".

 

Underlying wage growth is 2.5%. Not really "sharp" is it?

Employment prospects have improved since Brexit Angry, wages in construction have definitely improved since Brexit Angry. Major industries are looking to recruit staff since Brexit Angry. Big corporate bosses are moaning about lack of staff since Brexit Angry. Sorry if that irritates you but it is the real world.

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/brexit-causes-workforce-shortage-wage-17085881

 

[mattyq]

Brexit customs hits July

Furlough September

My employers are anticipating are not so happy short to medium term 

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes, we're talking about the immediate impacts of Brexit. 

 

The immediate impacts of Brexit do not benefit workers. Nothing that you have posted proves otherwise.  Simple assumptions about supply and demand don't stand up against actual facts (including some of the stuff you have posted on here in the last few years).

Er 'cough cough' 

 

Anyway stop worrying Angry, these bosses can afford it..

 

 

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/employers-must-improve-pay-and-conditions-to-entice-new-workers-after-brexit#gref

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Brexit customs hits July

Furlough September

My employers are anticipating are not so happy short to medium term 

What industry you in if you don't mind me asking?

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's so cute when you, of all people, start talking about "the real world".

 

Underlying wage growth is 2.5%. Not really "sharp" is it?

Bricklayers, Carpenters, Fork lift drivers, Labourers etc are certainly part of the real world though Angry, and it should surprise no one that after Brexit they are doing well..

 

https://nationaltradesmen.co.uk/2021/04/19/all-construction-workers-see-rise-in-wages-in-march-2021/

 

[Anubis]

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Employment prospects have improved since Brexit Angry, wages in construction have definitely improved since Brexit Angry. Major industries are looking to recruit staff since Brexit Angry. Big corporate bosses are moaning about lack of staff since Brexit Angry. Sorry if that irritates you but it is the real world.

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/brexit-causes-workforce-shortage-wage-17085881

 

That link about "interminable uncertainty" is from 2019, before the Tories "got Brexit done".

 

Show me some evidence that leaving the EU has either improved employment prospects or increased wages in any sector other than construction  (where it's debatable how much the shortage of migrant workers is due to Brexit and how much to Covid).

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Er 'cough cough' 

 

Anyway stop worrying Angry, these bosses can afford it..

 

 

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/employers-must-improve-pay-and-conditions-to-entice-new-workers-after-brexit#gref

A think tank says that employers in some sectors "must" improve pay and conditions.  Show me some evidence (apart from some areas of constuction) that they have improved and that the improvement is a result of Brexit. 

 

And while you're at it, get that cough seen to.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Gnasher said:

No? Here's the them Chancellor,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

 

Damn shame that never happened. 

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That link about "interminable uncertainty" is from 2019, before the Tories "got Brexit done".

 

Show me some evidence that leaving the EU has either improved employment prospects or increased wages in any sector other than construction  (where it's debatable how much the shortage of migrant workers is due to Brexit and how much to Covid).

I've gave loads of links above Angry. All sectors in all areas are experiencing labour shortages and its all over the country, if you can't see it I suggest you need to get out a bit more.

 

On 09/03/2021 at 19:23, Gnasher said:

He did make them look the cunts they are though... just one classic

 

 

 

 

On 07/05/2021 at 09:52, Manny said:

I for one welcome our new pastry and wine supplying overlords.

Ive gave plenty of evidence in links above Angry. I'm surprised you need them to be honest. It's common knowledge their is a labour shortage in almost all sectors throughout the country, if you can't see that I suggest you get out a bit more.

 

The games up with the EU, the argument has been won, people have moved on. Even people like Ed Milliband was saying only yesterday that's he's embraced Brexit. If you want to continue defending Ursula and her crew that's your perogative but the Brexit will blow up the country/economy argument is over, it hasn't happened. Sorry. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It doesn't. 

 

The Government are not passive observers to this. They can easily legislate to force people into underpaid, shitty jobs (even more than they do now) - and there's no reason to believe there would be an electoral penalty for them.

Right on cue, new measures to hobble trade unions.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-confirms-plans-to-modernise-trade-union-regulator

 

See also, laws around unemployment benefits, etc, which will make any offer of low-paid, insecure work "an offer you can't refuse".

 

That's the real world.