Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Bjornebye]

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Angry you state everyone who knows what they are talking about agrees the eu is not in any way to blame for the increase in modern day slavery. 

For what it's worth, I didn't say that.  Ever.

 

They do all agree that you combat slavery and exploitation by giving workers more rights; specifically, migrant workers need the right to live and work in the host country.  These are the rights that you - and all Brexiteers- want to remove. 

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

For what it's worth, I didn't say that.  Ever.

 

They do all agree that you combat slavery and exploitation by giving workers more rights; specifically, migrant workers need the right to live and work in the host country.  These are the rights that you - and all Brexiteers- want to remove. 

For fucks sake angry they havnt got no fucking rights, never had any fucking rights and the poor fuckers will probably never have any fucking rights. They are enslaved, they're not negotiating a new contract at the BBC.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

45 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

For fucks sake angry they havnt got no fucking rights, never had any fucking rights and the poor fuckers will probably never have any fucking rights. They are enslaved, they're not negotiating a new contract at the BBC.

What the Hell is wrong with you?

 

You know if someone gets abducted, do the Police say "Ah well, there's nothing we can do: they've got no rights now"?

Or do they say "That person has the right not to be abducted; we should do something about that"?

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Your apparent failure to understand the concept of "rights" might explain why you are so glib about throwing them away.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Although I’m loathe to get involved in this skip fire of a spat, I think Angry is, with the best intentions, barking up the wrong tree.  According to this report, most victims of slavery are either UK nationals. Apart from Albania, the rest are non EU nationals mostly Vietnamese. The key table is on page 7. Ending the free movement of mainly white Europeans won’t make any difference to slavery in the UK as it is mainly happening to either UK nationals or non EU citizens. 

 

The general principle - that giving workers rights in host countries helps to protect people from slavery - is absolutely spot on.  

 

Gnash brought free movement into it, because he sees it as the root of all evil.  (He brought the recent Leicester sweatshops case into this thread as an example of the evils of EU free movement, because... er... something.) There is a specific problem of Romanian women being trafficked to the UK, on a false promise of a job, only to be forced into sex-slavery once they're here.  At the moment, they have some legal recourse because they have a legal right to live and work here.  Gnash is arguing that the best way to protect them is to remove that right because... er... something.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Your apparent failure to understand the concept of "rights" might explain why you are so glib about throwing them away.

I'm not glib about anything. It's a simple paradox that with free movement of peoples as you call it comes the downside which is peoples being exploited. You are making rights to a problem you've caused in the first place and the problem has grown so vast that eu legislation wont cure or tame it. 

 

The problem with (mainly) east European labour being exploited is 100% real and in front of everyones eyes, from fruit pickers in italy to prostitution in Scotland and the problem has exploded with eu expansion. Sorry but it's an unfortunate truth.

 

 

http://www.theperspective.se/prostitution-and-slavery-in-the-eu-romanias-human-trafficking-problem/

 

 

As for eu responses I've heard an Irish lady is now working/heading the eu slavery problem (and their is a massive problem) and she is excellent, cant remember her name Clair  Iverson/Irons,Ivings? but I've been told by someone who has spent his life fighting forced labour that she is the real deal and will get results. Hope hes right but I cant see it within this system.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The general principle - that giving workers rights in host countries helps to protect people from slavery - is absolutely spot on.  

 

Gnash brought free movement into it, because he sees it as the root of all evil.  (He brought the recent Leicester sweatshops case into this thread as an example of the evils of EU free movement, because... er... something.) There is a specific problem of Romanian women being trafficked to the UK, on a false promise of a job, only to be forced into sex-slavery once they're here.  At the moment, they have some legal recourse because they have a legal right to live and work here.  Gnash is arguing that the best way to protect them is to remove that right because... er... something.

I'm not arguing and have never argued for any worker from any country or from any race to have rights removed.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Although I’m loathe to get involved in this skip fire of a spat, I think Angry is, with the best intentions, barking up the wrong tree.  According to this report, most victims of slavery are either UK nationals. Apart from Albania, the rest are non EU nationals mostly Vietnamese. The key table is on page 7. Ending the free movement of mainly white Europeans won’t make any difference to slavery in the UK as it is mainly happening to either UK nationals or non EU citizens. 

 

Yeah agree, the vietnamese are mainly used to cultivate ganja plantations. It's a world wide problem no doubt.

 

It's the below report on the problem within the eu (it is an eu thread) I was drawing attention too and free movement is the root of the problem.

 

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18809330.sex-trafficking-romanian-women-uk-industrial-scale/

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I'm not arguing and have never argued for any worker from any country or from any race to have rights removed.

Do you even know what Brexit is?

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Yeah agree, the vietnamese are mainly used to cultivate ganja plantations. It's a world wide problem no doubt.

 

It's the below report on the problem within the eu (it is an eu thread) I was drawing attention too and free movement is the root of the problem.

 

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18809330.sex-trafficking-romanian-women-uk-industrial-scale/

At the risk of repeating myself, did you read that article? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

43 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

free movement is the root of the problem.

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18809330.sex-trafficking-romanian-women-uk-industrial-scale/

No it isn't. Nobody who knows or cares about sex-trafficking claims that it is.  Read the article.  It is clear that UK law is the problem. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

This is from Anti-Slavery International's 2017 report "Brexit & the UK's Fight Against Modern Slavery".

 

(I can't post a link, because I've only got a pdf. It is worth Googling, for anyone who is genuinely interested in understanding the issues.)

 

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No it isn't. Nobody who knows or cares about sex-trafficking claims that it is.  Read the article.  It is clear that UK law is the problem. 

Yes it is, the problem has escalated the past decade. I understand uk is a big part of the problem I've not said it isnt. Cuts to the proper immigration system have been counter productive, it's not just one factor at fault but with free movement of peoples comes exploitation, its difficult to have one without the other.. The eu and British response to forced labour for yhe past decade has been at best poor and at worst next to worthless.

 

On another branch of the same tree planned British cuts to overseas aid will be disastrous and result in more people forced to flee their homeland, not only creating a problem here but for the host countries who lose their youth.

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

This is from Anti-Slavery International's 2017 report "Brexit & the UK's Fight Against Modern Slavery".

 

(I can't post a link, because I've only got a pdf. It is worth Googling, for anyone who is genuinely interested in understanding the issues.)

 

A couple of points from the above, it says "where their is demand" but their is not demand, or at best little demand unless you count prostitution, working in sweatshops and fruit picking, and the only reason the last two are in such demand are they operate using cheap/borderline slave labour. If these professions played a decent salary then the demand would soon be filled.

 

As for more migration checks pushing migrants underground that's sort of stating the obvious even though most employed in the professions above are already underground.

 

 I also note you do not publish or comment the immigration report which says immigration pushes down wages of the low paid and migrants already working here whilst benefiting the middle class and wealthy.

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

[Gnasher]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Yeah agree, the vietnamese are mainly used to cultivate ganja plantations. It's a world wide problem no doubt.

 

It's the below report on the problem within the eu (it is an eu thread) I was drawing attention too and free movement is the root of the problem.

 

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18809330.sex-trafficking-romanian-women-uk-industrial-scale/

Edit, on the large influx of Vietnamese immigrants, a lot are employed in illegal marajuana factories as 'gardeners' where they cultivate the crop for the purpose of sale. You probably wont even notice them as they keep themselves out of sight of prying eyes and do not leave the house they are working in. Most Vietnamese are harmless and thrive on the UKs ridiculous outdated laws on low harm drug use. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I also note you do not publish or comment the immigration report which says immigration pushes down wages of the low paid and migrants already working here whilst benefiting the middle class and wealthy.

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

Quite right. In a discussion about Modern Slavery I didn't bring up something that's got nothing to do with Modern Slavery.  Good spot.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

A couple of points from the above, it says "where their is demand" but their is not demand, or at best little demand unless you count prostitution, working in sweatshops and fruit picking, and the only reason the last two are in such demand are they operate using cheap/borderline slave labour. If these professions played a decent salary then the demand would soon be filled.

 

As for more migration checks pushing migrants underground that's sort of stating the obvious even though most employed in the professions above are already underground.

 

 I also note you do not publish or comment the immigration report which says immigration pushes down wages of the low paid and migrants already working here whilst benefiting the middle class and wealthy.

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

You need to get in touch with Anti-Slavery International. You've obviously spotted something they've missed.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Quite right. In a discussion about Modern Slavery I didn't bring up something that's got nothing to do with Modern Slavery.  Good spot.

Swerved it again. Seems working class people getting a raw deal is not really a concern of yours.

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

 

[cloggypop]

Reckon we need a modern slavery thread. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Swerved it again. Seems working class people getting a raw deal is not really a concern of yours.

I've answered it almost as often as you've posted it, you twerp.

[Gnasher]

Just now, cloggypop said:

Reckon we need a modern slavery thread. 

I know you jest but we probably do. The top 3 or so issues of the next decade off the top of my head. Climate change, wealth inequality, Var, and issues regarding forced labour.

[Bobby Hundreds]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Reckon we need a modern slavery thread. 

Yes a young girl may of been tricked into moving abroad locked in a block of flats and forced to have sex with men but there's a flat screen Hisense in her communal space.

[mattyq]

Reading the thread on most overrated women I have decided I wouldn't mind enslaving Gemma Atkinson