Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Might be something to keep you occupied, here’s a review of both...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/13/left-out-the-inside-story-of-labour-under-corbyn-this-land-the-story-of-a-movement-review

Classic bit of Guardian snide in the review of Left Out, where it gives as an example of "anti-Semitism" the comments that Corbyn made about "unnamed 'Zionists' ". (The insinuation is that he was talking about Zionists in general  - and using Zionists in quotation marks, because we all know that the mad racist bastard meant "Jews".)

 

The two Zionists he was talking about were not unnamed. He made a joke about the conduct of two specific individuals.  Even the fucking Jewish Chronicle managed to get that bit right.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-sued-by-jewish-activist-richard-millett-for-defamatory-allegations-1.485376

 

[Rico1304]

 

[No2]

I'm watching a documentary called unquiet graves. Its about British collusion in Northern Ireland. The UVF have just rejected an order from the British Army to shoot up a Catholic school, killing all 30 kids and teachers. When the UVF think its a step to far then you know its bleak. This is the relatively recent history of Northern Ireland, these are the type of wounds they are looking to reopen for a black passport and access to tax havens.

[Gnasher]

There are people who call our young people workshy because they refuse to succumb to the slave labour working conditions on English farms, 

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/one-might-not-want-brexit-queen-got-huge-rise-in-eu-farm-subsidies/16/09/

 

 

Edit; 58 billion a year in farm subsidies, boom. A whooping third of the eu budget. "Critics argue most of the money goes to big landowners" you dont fucking say. High handouts to rich people who then employ cheap labour and treat them like dirt.

 

 

https://twnews.co.uk/uk-news/the-queen-received-55-boost-in-eu-farming-subsidies-at-sandringham

 

 

[skend04]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

There are people who call our young people workshy because they refuse to succumb to the slave labour working conditions on English farms, 

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/one-might-not-want-brexit-queen-got-huge-rise-in-eu-farm-subsidies/16/09/

 

 

Edit; 58 billion a year in farm subsidies, boom. A whooping third of the eu budget. "Critics argue most of the money goes to big landowners" you dont fucking say. High handouts to rich people who then employ cheap labour and treat them like dirt.

 

 

https://twnews.co.uk/uk-news/the-queen-received-55-boost-in-eu-farming-subsidies-at-sandringham

 

 

I knew you were a melt but now that the 'secret' of trashing the GFA is out along with the economy too (that they're trying to 'protect' over lives during the pandemic) and you're still posting your shite? 

 

You're a dick.

[Gnasher]

41 minutes ago, skend04 said:

I knew you were a melt but now that the 'secret' of trashing the GFA is out along with the economy too (that they're trying to 'protect' over lives during the pandemic) and you're still posting your shite? 

 

You're a dick.

My "shite" as you call it is a link showing an the eu subsidy to the queen,  these grants happen, they are a fact. Wealthy landowners receive hugh grants. It's also fact that farm workers are being exploited in this country, they work long hours for fuck all pay. I note me bringing it to attention offends you more than the sham itself; because that's what these grants are, a dirty fucking sham.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Wealthy landowners receive hugh grants.

Best. Typo. Ever.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

My "shite" as you call it is a link showing an the eu subsidy to the queen,  these grants happen, they are a fact. Wealthy landowners receive hugh grants. It's also fact that farm workers are being exploited in this country, they work long hours for fuck all pay. I note me bringing it to attention offends you more than the sham itself; because that's what these grants are, a dirty fucking sham.

Rich people are lapping up public money. Will a hard-right Tory Brexit make that better or worse?

 

Workers are being exploited. Will a hard-right Tory Brexit make that better or worse?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Rich people are lapping up public money. Will a hard-right Tory Brexit make that better or worse?

 

Workers are being exploited. Will a hard-right Tory Brexit make that better or worse?

Yes and yes is my answer. Do I agree? No and no. So all analysis and criticism shuts down? Ah so that's how it works 

 

Does the above forbid anyone (well it's only me left, the others have been bullied off) from pointing out the fraud of eu agricultural grants to the super rich?  Sorry it wont. The bigger the so called farm the more of the money. 

 

Data from Holland, all non biased, sorry if offends your acolytes; 

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/1.6-million-farmers-receive-almost-85-percent-of-the-EU-s-agricultural-subsidies

[Gnasher]

Good little article below, of course a few on here would rather journalists no longer ask these questions or make these points. It's gone from a non critical approach to anything eu to a non reporting anything but good about the eu. 

 

The below is not critical of the eu so hopefully wont harm the blood pressure of the neo cons too much, 

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/1.6-million-farmers-receive-almost-85-percent-of-the-EU-s-agricultural-subsidies

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Yes and yes is my answer. Do I agree? No and no. So all analysis and criticism shuts down? Ah so that's how it works 

 

Does the above forbid anyone (well it's only me left, the others have been bullied off) from pointing out the fraud of eu agricultural grants to the super rich?  Sorry it wont. The bigger the so called farm the more of the money. 

 

Data from Holland, all non biased, sorry if offends your acolytes; 

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/1.6-million-farmers-receive-almost-85-percent-of-the-EU-s-agricultural-subsidies

Literally nobody here pretends that the EU is perfect.  Stop arguing against stuff that nobody is arguing for - or at least stop casting yourself as some sort of lone voice crying in the wilderness. 

 

There's a lot about the EU that is shit. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has supported campaigns against the shit stuff.

 

But the fact of Brexit is that it hands untrammelled power to cunts committed to taking all that's wrong with the EU  - the inequality, the racism, the democratic deficit, the neoliberalism, etc. - and making it all much worse.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The below is not critical of the eu so hopefully wont harm the blood pressure of the neo cons too much 

Who?

 

Which neocons read this forum?

[skend04]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The below is not critical of the eu so hopefully wont harm the blood pressure of the neo cons too much, 

The only person supporting a neocon policy on here is you. This projection is a little bit strange.

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Who?

 

Which neocons read this forum?

Theres one above 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Theres one above 

That's just silly. 

[Gnasher]

20 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Literally nobody here pretends that the EU is perfect.  Stop arguing against stuff that nobody is arguing for - or at least stop casting yourself as some sort of lone voice crying in the wilderness. 

 

There's a lot about the EU that is shit. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has supported campaigns against the shit stuff.

 

But the fact of Brexit is that it hands untrammelled power to cunts committed to taking all that's wrong with the EU  - the inequality, the racism, the democratic deficit, the neoliberalism, etc. - and making it all much worse.

I agree 100% with your last paragraph angry,  its worrying to say the least. I don't dispute it. 

 

Ths opening paragraphs are false I'm afraid, as an example look at the first reply today after I published the eu grant to the queen, outrage. Not outrage over the scam of giving the rich more money, outrage over me having the gaul to print it, sadly that's the norm. We had a bizarre scenario in the summer of migrants being flown into Britain during a pandemic to work on these hellholes and the so called liberal left go mute. One of the reasons the referendum was lost in my opinion. I realise I'm in a minority of one so I will leave it there.

[No2]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I realise I'm in a minority of one so I will leave it there.

No you won't.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

My "shite" as you call it is a link showing an the eu subsidy to the queen,  these grants happen, they are a fact. Wealthy landowners receive hugh grants. It's also fact that farm workers are being exploited in this country, they work long hours for fuck all pay. I note me bringing it to attention offends you more than the sham itself; because that's what these grants are, a dirty fucking sham.

 

 

Im not getting in to it again as it’s fucking boring.

 

The EU allocates a percentage of the overall funds to each member state based on need etc.

 

Citizens of that country are then free to apply and if the government of the day believes they need it, require it, or would benefit they then allocate.

 

Meaning the UK government is responsible for the allocation.
 

https://www.gov.uk/topic/farming-food-grants-payments/rural-grants-payments

 

Tiis is evidence that disproves your claim, it is not a debating point.

 

If it was a year earlier you could have applied for a grant for a spade to keep digging in to this ridiculous hole you’re insistent on cultivating.

 

 

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, No2 said:

No you won't.

Nah I wont now. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I agree 100% with your last paragraph angry,  its worrying to say the least. I don't dispute it. 

 

Ths opening paragraphs are false I'm afraid, as an example look at the first reply today after I published the eu grant to the queen, outrage. Not outrage over the scam of giving the rich more money, outrage over me having the gaul to print it, sadly that's the norm. We had a bizarre scenario in the summer of migrants being flown into Britain during a pandemic to work on these hellholes and the so called liberal left go mute. One of the reasons the referendum was lost in my opinion. I realise I'm in a minority of one so I will leave it there.

You know that somewhere, many, many pages back, there's a big long debate about the facts around farm workers.  Nobody "went mute".

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

You know that somewhere, many, many pages back, there's a big long debate about the facts around farm workers.  Nobody "went mute".

You think I do not know that angry, Ive been in the middle of it, i also regularly bring up the shocking treatment of farm workers, there was little if any criticism of eu farm policy. Look above and point me to the criticism of the Queens handout (there isnt any) and you get the drift.

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

It's a big yes from the gangsters of Humgary,

 

https://www.slowfood.com/a-broken-system-how-eu-farming-subsidies-lead-to-land-grabbing-in-hungary/

[Gnasher]

52 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Im not getting in to it again as it’s fucking boring.

 

The EU allocates a percentage of the overall funds to each member state based on need etc.

 

Citizens of that country are then free to apply and if the government of the day believes they need it, require it, or would benefit they then allocate.

 

Meaning the UK government is responsible for the allocation.
 

https://www.gov.uk/topic/farming-food-grants-payments/rural-grants-payments

 

Tiis is evidence that disproves your claim, it is not a debating point.

 

If it was a year earlier you could have applied for a grant for a spade to keep digging in to this ridiculous hole you’re insistent on cultivating.

 

 

There are many funds, loans, grants availableto farmers both home and abroad., the link you provided is just a staple govt advice link for the first stage of application.  Common agricultural policy divides the money from eu funds. The EAGF, the European Agricultural Guarantee Fund give out the grants. Britain must adhere to eu policy (rightly so) when it comes to releasing CAP money, it is (rightly so) not allowed to divide the grant as it sees fit.

 

A farmed I used to know got approx 500 euro a hectare for unattended waste land, although I cant remember the exact figure and it might have altered now. I believe the eu gives more pee hectare for greener farming, which is good policy. 

 

Edit;, Sorry its approx 280 quid per hectare

[Dr Nowt]

Humgary needs to get that gap in his teeth sorted.

[Gnasher]

On the subject of Hungary (not the toothless one) I do wonder if European politicians were trying to rile Russia when letting them and other countries in the east join. Not a good if so.