Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

The EU should hold it's head in shame

 

https://jubileedebt.org.uk/countries-in-crisis/greek-debt-crisis-case-banks-people

[Trumo]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I will always be behind any govt that promotes less inequality less unemployment, less privatisation and more state assets to be returned to the people who work for and own them. I was/am and will whatever the Brexit outcome be with the socialist former government of Greece.

 

And yet you are pushing for the country to become the antithesis of these values. If the UK government can control the country's own fate, they'll be moving further away from these values. In monetary terms, the amounts saved by being outside the EU will largely be swallowed up by the elite.

[skend04]

9 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

And yet you are pushing for the country to become the antithesis of these values. If the UK government can control the country's own fate, they'll be moving further away from these values. In monetary terms, the amounts saved by being outside the EU will largely be swallowed up by the elite.

There are no savings and now Javid is even refusing to sanction impact assessments on Boris's deal. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

According to the Twitterati journos the customs union and 2nd referendum amendments (probably Corbyn's fault, somehow) won't pass. The Tories fear that the programme motion will pass and their arbitrary out by the 31st deadline won't be hit. They then think Johnson will pull the WAB and we'll be heading for a November general election which Labour can't block as there's a feeling that the EU will only grant an extension if there's an associated "democratic event" in the UK (such as an election or a referendum). 

[Gnasher]

55 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

Plus the poll at the top of the page, which includes percentages, suggests otherwise. 

There are very very  few dissenting voices over the past 20 pages regarding the EU. Dissenters are shut down and you're one of the main culprits. It's like a Moonie love fest.

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

And yet you are pushing for the country to become the antithesis of these values. If the UK government can control the country's own fate, they'll be moving further away from these values. In monetary terms, the amounts saved by being outside the EU will largely be swallowed up by the elite.

I know you make a valid point

 Sometimes the gloves have to come off, people get hit and hurt and only then blows have to get thrown. It's not ideal but it's sometimes the only way, lines have to be drawn.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

There are very very  few dissenting voices over the past 20 pages regarding the EU. Dissenters are shut down and you're one of the main culprits. It's like a Moonie love fest.

 

Hardly, I only quoted a few of your posts because as usual you were chatting bollocks about the EU. My mistake, I'll just let you ramble on in your deluded little bubble. 

[Red Shift]

5 hours ago, Pistonbroke said:

You have to laugh at leave voters. They kept banging on about leaving without a deal and knowing what they voted for from the onset, now they are whining about Bercow and the opposition trying to block the latest deal until it has been scrutinised and digested. The truth is, they haven't got a clue, the thick fucking bastards. 

To be fair, the politician's job, on any issue, is to simplify complex matters for voters, to help them make a decision. This is where rogues with the gift of the gab get elected, and parties get mandates for bullshit.

The last thing politicians want, is a country full of citizens capable of critical thinking. Christ, we'd have built a perfect world already.

[Red Shift]

3 hours ago, sir roger said:

Interested in whether the other countries in WW2 obsess about it as much as a large portion of our population does. Yesterday channel has about 8 hours of Nazi documentaries every day.

Yeah its all over Sky here in Aotearoa. Endless takes on Hitler's dog's secret mega structure kennel that converted to a Type 10 uboat, carrying the Nazi gold to Peru in '45.

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

The country is 50 50ish on Brexit and this forum is 98 to 2 l% ish on this forum.  Just saying like. 

Could have a lot to do with Johnson's negative comments about Liverpudlians? Just sayin'.

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

For what it's worth, Greece has finally shown improvements and signs of recovery. The austerity as awful as it was has helped to reduce levels of corruption.  They have an aging population stuck in their ways and it needed to be tackled. Government needed to be modernised.

 

I don't agree with how they were treated by the EU but perhaps there are some positives to take from the austerity. The EU will certainly see it that way. 

Agreed, and isn't that the thrust of the whole climate change debate? The planet needs us to introduce global austerity?

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

The EU should hold it's head in shame

 

https://jubileedebt.org.uk/countries-in-crisis/greek-debt-crisis-case-banks-people

It might be time for a new topic.
*Where Does Money Come From* with a poll at the top of the page asking *Do you know where money comes from* and a few multi choice answers like 'government' ' a tree' 'the dole office' etc etc.

[aRdja]

42 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

Agreed, and isn't that the thrust of the whole climate change debate? The planet needs us to introduce global austerity?

No, the planet needs more investment and subsidies on environmentally friendly energy sources.  Austerity only leads to outsourcing the provision of goods and services to the private sector and the private sector’s sole focus is profit. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

There is nothing "ill concieved" about the IMF and the EU enforcing mass austerity on a democratically elected govt angry. You keep swallowing the neo con shilling I'll abstain.

"Abstain" = "Refuse to engage with genuine issues and resort to stupid and demonstrably baseless name-calling, same as usual,  instead."

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I know you make a valid point

 Sometimes the gloves have to come off, people get hit and hurt and only then blows have to get thrown. It's not ideal but it's sometimes the only way, lines have to be drawn.

All the forecasts for Brexit show increased hardship for the most vulnerable people, including increased numbers of deaths which would otherwise be preventable.  When you, a comfortable and smug keyboard-revolutionary, shrug their suffering off as "people get hit and hurt" I have to tell you to go fuck yourself. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

All the forecasts for Brexit show increased hardship for the most vulnerable people, including increased numbers of deaths which would otherwise be preventable.  When you, a comfortable and smug keyboard-revolutionary, shrug their suffering off as "people get hit and hurt" I have to tell you to go fuck yourself. 

 

It seems to be the mantra with a lot of brexiteers, especially the older ones who are retired or reaching retirement age. They think it's fine for people to take a hit as long as they get their freedom and independence from the nasty EU, ignoring all the benefits that brings. They also bang on about youth unemployment yet are prepared to take away an avenue to ease this and the rights that help the youth of today, all in the hope that things turn out well in the long run, regardless of how long and rocky that run may be. They are placing blind faith in future Governments despite the grievancies they feel being the fault of past and present Governments and not purely down to the EU. 

[Bjornebye]

12 hours ago, Red Shift said:

Yeah its all over Sky here in Aotearoa. Endless takes on Hitler's dog's secret mega structure kennel that converted to a Type 10 uboat, carrying the Nazi gold to Peru in '45.

Any streams for this? 

[skend04]

Jim Fitzpatrick. Labour MP. Constituency 66% remain. Not read the bill nor intends to read it. Will vote both times today for it.

 

Now I know people here have a go at the MSM in their treatment of Labour but when fuck nuggets like Jim are doing this without reproach from the hierarchy then there's something a bit fucked up in the party too.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Jim Fitzpatrick. Labour MP. Constituency 66% remain. Not read the bill nor intends to read it. Will vote both times today for it.

 

Now I know people here have a go at the MSM in their treatment of Labour but when fuck nuggets like Jim are doing this without reproach from the hierarchy then there's something a bit fucked up in the party too.

 

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

He should be punched in the cunt for that. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

50 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Jim Fitzpatrick. Labour MP. Constituency 66% remain. Not read the bill nor intends to read it. Will vote both times today for it.

 

Now I know people here have a go at the MSM in their treatment of Labour but when fuck nuggets like Jim are doing this without reproach from the hierarchy then there's something a bit fucked up in the party too.

There's no doubt Labour get a kicking from the media, but you're right - they like to make it really, really fucking easy to do so. 

[Denny Crane]

Is there no such thing as personal responsibility that should be attributed to Jim Fitzpatrick? I mean if a politician who has a duty of care or at least should admits he doesn't read before voting. Then in any other workplace that requires important decision making that would be treated seriously as some form of misconduct. We know he's stepping down at the next election, what do you think Labour can do or have failed to do? 

[aRdja]

20 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Is there no such thing as personal responsibility that should be attributed to Jim Fitzpatrick? I mean if a politician who has a duty of care or at least should admits he doesn't read before voting. Then in any other workplace that requires important decision making that would be treated seriously as some form of misconduct. We know he's stepping down at the next election, what do you think Labour can do or have failed to do? 

obviously execute a “sinister stalinist purge”.

[Anubis]

.

[Bjornebye]

So the Tories have just announced during the debate (away from the chamber) that if the bill isn't agreed by 7pm then they will pull it.