Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Numero Veinticinco]

I disagree with voting for the party giving out guns because it's obvious guns will lead to higher gun crime. I also don't like people who vote for relaxing gun laws and then moan about the rising gun crime, especially when they did so to line their own pocket gun holster. I would, however, chuckle when they get shot in the face. 

[Oh Buoy]

10 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I disagree with voting for the party giving out guns because it's obvious guns will lead to higher gun crime. I also don't like people who vote for relaxing gun laws and then moan about the rising gun crime, especially when they did so to line their own pocket gun holster. I would, however, chuckle when they get shot in the face. 

 

All went a bit dark there. 

[lifetime fan]

Never fall out with friends over politics, religion or cocaine. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

From The Guardian :

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/01/home-office-planning-to-end-family-reunion-for-children-after-brexit

 

Fucking sickening, another situation where lives are at stake but they simply couldn't give a shit.

Was just about to post this. 

 

We're becoming an ever more uglier country by the day. It's a Trumpian move, that one. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Was just about to post this. 

 

We're becoming an ever more uglier country by the day. It's a Trumpian move, that one. 

One of the speakers at the Liverpool "Stop the Coup" demo yesterday made the point that this is the most anti-Human Rights cabinet we've had for decades. Hard to argue with that.

[Denny Crane]

 

[Section_31]

Protests don't work unless they're violent. Sad but true. I've lost count of how many peaceful protests there's been since 2010, teachers, unions, public sector staff, it's endless, all have achieved nothing and barely get any coverage. Same goes for fucking stupid online petitions. 

 

"Sign this petition to demand the queen not suspend parliament". Yeah alright pal, I'd do that if I was in prison and had literally nothing else to do and no telly. 

[Section_31]

11 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

 

 

One of the astonishing but unsuprising things about all this is the extraordinary lack of backbone shown by any of these fuckers, save the old school Tory types like Hammond. 

 

Javed is particularly loathsome, but then he is the muslim son of immigrants who's done very little else in his recent political career save attack muslims and immigrants. 

 

It's a new breed of Tory scum, and I don't use the word scum to be lazy, they're vile carbuncles of humanity. Tories used to stand for something, i,e Queen and country mainly, loved what they saw as traditional Britian. The likes of Major, May, they're a dying breed being replaced by hard right nutters who'd sell Britian to the highest bidder if it put a few quid and a promotion on the table. 

 

Pretty similar to what's happened to the Republican party. The neoliberal virus has mutated and is out of control to the point where it's even killing its host. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

47 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Protests don't work unless they're violent. Sad but true. I've lost count of how many peaceful protests there's been since 2010, teachers, unions, public sector staff, it's endless, all have achieved nothing and barely get any coverage. Same goes for fucking stupid online petitions. 

 

"Sign this petition to demand the queen not suspend parliament". Yeah alright pal, I'd do that if I was in prison and had literally nothing else to do and no telly. 

There have been a fair few successful strikes in that time.

 

Petitions like Change.org or whatever aren't worth the paper they're written on (see what I did there) but the Parliamentary ones at least get stuff debated in the place where the decisions are supposed to be made; that's not nothing.

 

Most people who argue "protests don't work" miss the point of what they're trying to achieve.  Nobody actually expects the Government to look at a CND march and say "Better scrap Trident, then".  It's all about building a visible and active movement for whatever the cause is and encouraging people to keep going with the day-to-day activities that might make a difference.

 

I doubt violent protests have a better track record than non-violent ones.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

 

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

There have been a fair few successful strikes in that time.

 

Petitions like Change.org or whatever aren't worth the paper they're written on (see what I did there) but the Parliamentary ones at least get stuff debated in the place where the decisions are supposed to be made; that's not nothing.

 

Most people who argue "protests don't work" miss the point of what they're trying to achieve.  Nobody actually expects the Government to look at a CND march and say "Better scrap Trident, then".  It's all about building a visible and active movement for whatever the cause is and encouraging people to keep going with the day-to-day activities that might make a difference.

 

I doubt violent protests have a better track record than non-violent ones.

Hmmm?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/31/poll-tax-riots-25-years-ago-political-awakening-carnage-trafalgar-square

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Hmmm?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/31/poll-tax-riots-25-years-ago-political-awakening-carnage-trafalgar-square

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(Great_Britain)

 

The Poll Tax was a bollocks idea which even a lot of senior Tories recognised was a vote loser.  It sparked a campaign of protests and non-payment, which meant it was never going to succeed.  A march of 200,000 people was part of that campaign; Met Police aggro turned the march violent.

 

It's a bit of a stretch to argue that the violence on that one afternoon was a decisive factor in the fall of Thatcher.  She'd survived worse riots.

[Duff Man]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

One of the astonishing but unsuprising things about all this is the extraordinary lack of backbone shown by any of these fuckers, save the old school Tory types like Hammond. 

 

Javed is particularly loathsome, but then he is the muslim son of immigrants who's done very little else in his recent political career save attack muslims and immigrants. 

 

It's a new breed of Tory scum, and I don't use the word scum to be lazy, they're vile carbuncles of humanity. Tories used to stand for something, i,e Queen and country mainly, loved what they saw as traditional Britian. The likes of Major, May, they're a dying breed being replaced by hard right nutters who'd sell Britian to the highest bidder if it put a few quid and a promotion on the table. 

 

Pretty similar to what's happened to the Republican party. The neoliberal virus has mutated and is out of control to the point where it's even killing its host. 

I mean, they're not exactly showing much backbone if they don't actually vote against the government, which is what's looking likely.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

I mean, they're not exactly showing much backbone if they don't actually vote against the government, which is what's looking likely.

Fair fucks to Rory Stewart.

 

 

[Duff Man]

It's the absolute fucking least they should be doing.

[Boss]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

One of the astonishing but unsuprising things about all this is the extraordinary lack of backbone shown by any of these fuckers, save the old school Tory types like Hammond. 

 

Javed is particularly loathsome, but then he is the muslim son of immigrants who's done very little else in his recent political career save attack muslims and immigrants. 

 

It's a new breed of Tory scum, and I don't use the word scum to be lazy, they're vile carbuncles of humanity. Tories used to stand for something, i,e Queen and country mainly, loved what they saw as traditional Britian. The likes of Major, May, they're a dying breed being replaced by hard right nutters who'd sell Britian to the highest bidder if it put a few quid and a promotion on the table. 

 

Pretty similar to what's happened to the Republican party. The neoliberal virus has mutated and is out of control to the point where it's even killing its host. 

 

Are you seriously suggesting May and Major wouldn't sell Britain out from under them? They have and will. May was quite happy to sell Britain into vassal state slavery for her own career and John Major presided over an equally aggressive privatisation policy as Thatcher. What you're really saying is May and Major had honour because they were Remainers. Which is totally disingenuous and false. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting May and Major wouldn't sell Britain out from under them? They have and will. May was quite happy to sell Britain into vassal state slavery for her own career and John Major presided over an equally aggressive privatisation policy as Thatcher. What you're really saying is May and Major had honour because they were Remainers. Which is totally disingenuous and false. 

Really?

 

Really now?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting May and Major wouldn't sell Britain out from under them? They have and will. May was quite happy to sell Britain into vassal state slavery for her own career and John Major presided over an equally aggressive privatisation policy as Thatcher. What you're really saying is May and Major had honour because they were Remainers. Which is totally disingenuous and false. 

For what it's worth, I'd also argue that May and Major weren't quite as nakedly self-serving as Johnson.  But that isn't a Remainer/Leaver thing.  Cameron was a Remainer and was every inch the greedy, country-selling, careerist cunt that his Bullingdon chum is.

[Boss]

I find it funny how Hammond has a backbone because he's a Remainer that refuses to be cajoled by the Tory party, yet the Brexiteers who stood by their convictions - refusing to vote for Theresa May's deal - are described as scum. Square that circle. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Boss said:

I find it funny how Hammond has a backbone because he's a Remainer that refuses to be cajoled by the Tory party, yet the Brexiteers who stood by their convictions - refusing to vote for Theresa May's deal - are described as scum. Square that circle. 

He doesn't actually make the Leave/Remain divide in that post: you interpreted it that way.  I interpreted the "scum" to mean the amoral, greedy self-serving pricks who are using this whole horrorshow as a means of enriching themselves and their chums; that includes the likes of Cameron as well as the likes of Rees-Mogg.

[M_B]

Interesting move by Boris to threaten to remove the Tory whip from rebellers when he has a majority of 1.

[Boss]

11 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

He doesn't actually make the Leave/Remain divide in that post: you interpreted it that way.  I interpreted the "scum" to mean the amoral, greedy self-serving pricks who are using this whole horrorshow as a means of enriching themselves and their chums; that includes the likes of Cameron as well as the likes of Rees-Mogg.

 

I don't see it that way in relation to Rees-Mogg. He's as resolute in his convictions towards leaving as Ken Clarke is towards staying. Yes, you have the likes of Javid and Rudd - careerists that would side with party over principle, but the vast majority are principled on one side of the divide or the other.

 

You can't claim one side as noble and the other ignoble when they're ostensibly doing the same thing. If Hammond has backbone for having strength in his conviction then the Brexiteers also have backbone for having strength in theirs. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, Boss said:

 

I don't see it that way in relation to Rees-Mogg. He's as resolute in his convictions towards leaving as Ken Clarke is towards staying. Yes, you have the likes of Javid and Rudd - careerists that would side with party over principle, but the vast majority are principled on one side of the divide or the other.

 

You can't claim one side as noble and the other ignoble when they're ostensibly doing the same thing. If Hammond has backbone for having strength in his conviction then the Brexiteers also have backbone for having strength in theirs. 

Rees-Mogg is a hedge-fund speculator. He is estimated to have already made £7 million betting against the UK economy.  His dad literally wrote a book on how to profit from an economic crisis. His Parliamentary career - which gives him a handle on the timing of the crisis - is just a means to an end.

[Rico1304]

Rebecca Long Bailey on the BBC was awful.  Just parroting lines. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Any Tory MP who votes against their own government in face of deselection or to bring down their own government in order to put the long term financial health of the country first will not just go up in my (admittedly insignificant) estimation but also be absolved of my hatred of at least one full week.