Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 In seriousness the cheap/slave labour game is over. 

Not yet, it's not. We can't get smug and complacent, just because people in some sectors got a decent pay rise.

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Not yet, it's not. We can't get smug and complacent, just because people in some sectors got a decent pay rise.

Yeah agreed.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"Negative impact on lower paid workers" and Negative impact on settled immigrants themselves, I'd  take a wild guess most are working class, 

The lowest-paid workers are not the whole of the working class. It's just wrong to take the experience of one sector of the working class and pretend that it's the same for all working class people. (It's the same mistake you make when you exaggerate the impact of the current sector-specific pay-rises.)

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The lowest-paid workers are not the whole of the working class. It's just wrong to take the experience of one sector of the working class and pretend that it's the same for all working class people. (It's the same mistake you make when you exaggerate the impact of the current sector-specific pay-rises.)

The Labour Party are at a crossroads, they have a choice, it's either stay on the same failed path of championing Latvian lorry drivers and paying in to the I love all things Ursula fan club or be bold and run with the opportunity Brexit has presented. Example, two main policy's..Labour should challenge the Johnson bluster on a high wage high skilled economy and back him into a corner by demanding an immediate 5% pay rise for all public sector workers. Labour should also use this silly bullsit phrase of 'take back control" for its own advantage  by demanding we take back control of or energy companies.  Two policies, two vote winners. 

 

As for the lorry driver/farm workers labour shortages put a levy on the big supermarkets, they've made huge profits during this pandemic, they've received public money, let them pay the excess on workers and train drivers, the food ends up on their shelves to be sold for profit.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Stickman said:

Ever feel like you've been cheated ?

 

 

 

Yeah, been cheated out of more jobs/higher wages for the past 30 odd years of being in the current EU, country should've listened to Foot, Benn, Bevan, Attlee, and Crow.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

 

Underlying wage growth between 4.1 to 5 6% according to the ONS.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

The Labour Party are at a crossroads, they have a choice, it's either stay on the same failed path of championing Latvian lorry drivers and paying in to the I love all things Ursula fan club or be bold and run with the opportunity Brexit has presented. Example, two main policy's..Labour should challenge the Johnson bluster on a high wage high skilled economy and back him into a corner by demanding an immediate 5% pay rise for all public sector workers. Labour should also use this silly bullsit phrase of 'take back control" for its own advantage  by demanding we take back control of or energy companies.  Two policies, two vote winners. 

 

As for the lorry driver/farm workers labour shortages put a levy on the big supermarkets, they've made huge profits during this pandemic, they've received public money, let them pay the excess on workers and train drivers, the food ends up on their shelves to be sold for profit.

Neither of those options are "opportunities Brexit has presented". Successive governments, with all three major UK parties involved, could have done those things and much more at any time, while still in the EU. They chose not to, because UK democracy is shite and keeps delivering shit UK governments.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 the EU suppressed wages, which in part is what it was devised to do.

 

This is false and it's exactly what the Tories want us to believe, because it lets them and their pals off the hook.

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Neither of those options are "opportunities Brexit has presented". Successive governments, with all three major UK parties involved, could have done those things and much more at any time, while still in the EU. They chose not to, because UK democracy is shite and keeps delivering shit UK governments.

Nail.head etc

It's almost like successive uk gmnts have had no influence on things like jobs and wages.

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Neither of those options are "opportunities Brexit has presented". Successive governments, with all three major UK parties involved, could have done those things and much more at any time, while still in the EU. They chose not to, because UK democracy is shite and keeps delivering shit UK governments.

Not true, the opportunity of feasible calls for public service wage rises is because certain parts of private sector wages have risen due in part to Brexit, its made rises a reality instead of a far off hope. Its now a cast iron argument.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

 

It's a lot easier to achieve nationalism without the EU push on privatisation pulling you back.

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Nail.head etc

It's almost like successive uk gmnts have had no influence on things like jobs and wages.

No nail no head, couldn't have realistically asked for substantial public sector wage increases without the current increases because of Brexit in the private sector,

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Not true, the opportunity of feasible calls for public service wage rises is because certain parts of private sector wages have risen due in part to Brexit, its made rises a reality instead of a far off hope. Its now a cast iron argument.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

 

It's a lot easier to achieve nationalism without the EU push on privatisation pulling you back.

It is absolutely true that nationalisation of utilities and public services is possible for EU Member States, which is why many of them have nationalised utilities and services.

 

It is absolutely true that public sector wages have always been in the gift of the national government.

 

Stop making excuses for New Labour and the Tories.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No nail no head, couldn't have realistically asked for substantial public sector wage increases without the current increases because of Brexit in the private sector,

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

It's bollocks. The shrinking total GDP - because of the inevitable impact of Brexit - makes it even less likely that the Government will fund decent pay rises in the public sector.

[Arniepie]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No nail no head, couldn't have realistically asked for substantial public sector wage increases without the current increases because of Brexit in the private sector,

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/uk-job-vacancies-record-12m-brexit-covid-staff-shortages-unemployment

What exactly do you mean by substantial?

Until austerity came along along the public sector got yearly public sector.

Therefore 8 years of pay feezes have absolutely zero to do with the eu as the gmnt had money when it suited them.

[Strontium]

I can't speak for anyone else but my pay increased by 16.4% between May 2010 and May 2015.

 

6.5% between 2015 and 2020 once the Tories were governing on their own.

[Gnasher]

52 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

What exactly do you mean by substantial?

Until austerity came along along the public sector got yearly public sector.

Therefore 8 years of pay feezes have absolutely zero to do with the eu as the gmnt had money when it suited them.

Wages have been pretty much stagnant for over a decade, governments/employers don't give wage rises out of the goodness of their heart, events/unions force their hand, the lack of workers due to Brexit/Covid has forced employers of certain sectors to increase pay keep/attract workers, once this happens it normally starts a domino effect.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 once this happens it normally starts a domino effect.

No it doesn't. The only way that happens is if wage rises drive a general increase in inflation (which you're adamant won't happen; and I'm inclined to agree with you on that score). Workers in other sectors will want a pay rise to keep them ahead of increases in the cost of living, irrespective of whether workers in construction, hospitality and haulage get a decent increase.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No it doesn't. The only way that happens is if wage rises drive a general increase in inflation (which you're adamant won't happen; and I'm inclined to agree with you on that score). Workers in other sectors will want a pay rise to keep them ahead of increases in the cost of living, irrespective of whether workers in construction, hospitality and haulage get a decent increase.

It does, you normally find if let's say fireman get a wage rise other public sector workers will use it as a barometer and ask for similar. Human nature.

[Scooby Dudek]

So are we now implying that public sector workers have not had a decent pay rise for a decade has had nothing to do with the cunts in charge of the British government but because we were in the EU? 

 

This will explain why public sector workers are now dancing in the streets because having left the EU they will be getting a huge inflation busting pay rise this year. Or maybe not because of the cunts in charge of the British government.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It does, you normally find if let's say fireman get a wage rise other public sector workers will use it as a barometer and ask for similar. Human nature.

Nope. The only barometer of how much to ask for is the cost of living.

[Arniepie]

56 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

I can't speak for anyone else but my pay increased by 16.4% between May 2010 and May 2015.

 

6.5% between 2015 and 2020 once the Tories were governing on their own.

Mine has prved moved about 5% in a decade.

Id hazard a guess that yours was during the period when the gmnt managed to remove a previous agreement which ensured all civil servants got at least a cost of living rise each year?

Meaning that in the last 3 years the average pay has increased by about 1.5%

PCs have also estimated that the average worker salary has stagnated significantly over the last 10 years, in comparison with the cost of living,leaving many civil servants struggling.

 

But yours has gone up so.

 

Yayy.

[Gnasher]

22 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nope. The only barometer of how much to ask for is the cost of living.

Nope. The barometer is the going rate. Examples, if Bricklayers get a pay rise it's not a shock if Carpenters then ask for one, at the other end of the scale if Itv or Sky up its rate for presenters etc the bbc will either follow suit or lose its staff.

[Arniepie]

59 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Wages have been pretty much stagnant for over a decade, governments/employers don't give wage rises out of the goodness of their heart, events/unions force their hand, the lack of workers due to Brexit/Covid has forced employers of certain sectors to increase pay keep/attract workers, once this happens it normally starts a domino effect.

Sound

 

So a big fuck pay rise this year then.

[Arniepie]

Silly question put if pay freezes were down to the eu why did they only get implemented when tories and liberals got in?

I'm fairly sure we didnt join the eu in 2010

 

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

I can't speak for anyone else but my pay increased by 16.4% between May 2010 and May 2015.

 

6.5% between 2015 and 2020 once the Tories were governing on their own.

I've just had a 35% increase. Gnasher might be on to something here.

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Silly question put if pay freezes were down to the eu why did they only get implemented when tories and liberals got in?

 

16.4% is one heck of a pay freeze.