Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

The 'don't have a pay rise because firms can't afford it because of brexit' will be a vote winner,

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Construction companies?  Really?

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/construction-building-material-ihs-markit-pmi-june-uk-housebuilders-inflation-091738481.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly91ay1maW5hbmNlLXlhaG9vLWNvbS5jZG4uYW1wcHJvamVjdC5vcmcv&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANMyrzRDA0yuzi_CML_Sf2zgeia6qaD_UVgtErz5pWUI6KIAMw2g4pnNLDUW0HA7UyJF_WCB2xql9tBc92Yn13u3tSvZwDNDCrmGIdgGxdqlnalIaURnkSTQNtdY6j29XodVs0T8CNXXcCHFBUgTaNFBi-NtA46HYC25XIBPB2Oz

 

 

Yeah.  If you read it properly, construction companies aren't going to be able to sustain higher wages.

 

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/07/06/buyers-report-24-year-high-in-construction-output-growth/

 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yeah.  If you read it properly, construction companies aren't going to be able to sustain higher wages.

 

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/07/06/buyers-report-24-year-high-in-construction-output-growth/

 

 

53 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Independent haulage firms, construction companies, pubs, hotels, etc. can't afford these rates of pay - as I've already pointed out, the big multinationals (like Aldi) will be best placed to survive this Covid/Brexit storm.  This will leave them with an even more powerful market position.  Of course, they could choose to use that position to reward workers instead of shareholders and executives, but somehow I don't see it.

Which economist told you firms can't afford pay rises? Adam Smith?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a8385de5-e7cb-4fef-9e97-ac5fdc74015b

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The 'don't have a pay rise because firms can't afford it because of brexit' will be a vote winner,

 

 

Nobody is saying that, you walloper.

 

Firstly, I don't believe the current round of sector-specific payrises are primarily because of Brexit; there's plenty of evidence pointing to Covid as the main factor.

 

Secondly, there's a huge difference between saying "don't have a payrise" and acknowledging that the current payrises won't last, because Cunts Are Still Running The World - Brexit has only cemented the power of bastard Tories and exploitative bosses to twat workers even more.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

Which economist told you firms can't afford pay rises? Adam Smith?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a8385de5-e7cb-4fef-9e97-ac5fdc74015b

Paywall.  Don't know what that says.

 

Most of the links you've posted make it quite clear that businesses (especially smaller ones) are struggling to recover from Covid and to deal with labour shortages; everybody is talking about the current sector-specific payrises as an emergency response to extraordinary circumstances. 

 

Your blinkers are made of sturdy stuff.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nobody is saying that, you walloper.

 

Firstly, I don't believe the current round of sector-specific payrises are primarily because of Brexit; there's plenty of evidence pointing to Covid as the main factor.

https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/london-wage-inflation-attributed-to-brexit-factor

 

 

https://traveltomorrow.com/brexit-causes-staff-shortages-and-pay-rises-in-uk-hospitality/

 

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/brexit-and-britains-labour-shortage-8033872

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/brexit-causes-workforce-shortage-wage-17085881

 

 

 

I can give you loads more like the above.

 

 

 

Quote

Secondly, there's a huge difference between saying "don't have a payrise" and acknowledging that the current payrises won't last, because Cunts Are Still Running The World - Brexit has only cemented the power of bastard Tories and exploitative bosses to twat workers even more.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/london-wage-inflation-attributed-to-brexit-factor

 

 

https://traveltomorrow.com/brexit-causes-staff-shortages-and-pay-rises-in-uk-hospitality/

 

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/brexit-and-britains-labour-shortage-8033872

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/brexit-causes-workforce-shortage-wage-17085881

 

 

 

I can give you loads more like the above.

 

 

 

 

I can't wait.

 

The first one gives Brexit as the main reason for increases in one month only, because of the impending deadline for the Settlement Scheme.  (You know what I said about the current payrises being emergency measures that won't last?  That.)

 

The second one is a tourism writer's opinion that Brexit should be the headline, but half of the people he quotes and the reports he links to talk about Covid.

 

The third one is not what you'd call an impartial source: it's a pro-business, anti-Brexit propaganda sheet (written by the kind of people who favoured the Cameron/Clegg vision for the EU). Of course they're going to spin business problems as being all about Brexit.

 

The fourth one - from October 2019 - predates both Brexit and Covid.

 

They don't add up to a compelling argument.

[No2]

On 30/07/2021 at 10:53, Gnasher said:

Tesco make sure they have plenty of work to do, don't worry about that. It's a massive exaggeration to say "no" deliveries are being made. 

Teaco employ 330,000 people in the UK, Sports Direct 24,000 and Amazon about 40,000. While you celebrate in what is a minor and temporary inconvenience to them the real economy and the real people suffer.

Small businesses run the country, they just don't make the headlines you regurgitate hourly but they pay the bills for half the country. These are the guys who are suffering, they can't dip into their billion pound reserves to cover a 10% hit, instead they make changes, usually by letting people go. You see rather than paying people extra to pack shelves they can't fill they get rid of them.

SMEs and the Economy:

Total employment in SMEs was 16.8 million (61% of the total), whilst turnover was estimated at £2.3 trillion (52%). Employment in small businesses (with 0 to 49 employees) was 13.3 million (48% of the total), with a turnover of £1.6 trillion (36%).

[Gnasher]

More bad news...

 

https://www.export.org.uk/news/559665/IMF-predicts-the-UK-is-on-course-for-faster-growth-than-the-United-States-and-the-EU.htm

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

More bad news...

 

https://www.export.org.uk/news/559665/IMF-predicts-the-UK-is-on-course-for-faster-growth-than-the-United-States-and-the-EU.htm

Are you trying to spin that as a "Brexit is good" story, in the hope that none of us actually read it?

 

It says that the UK is catching up with other developed countries and that it won't regain pre-pandemic levels for a while; Eurozone countries will do that before the UK does.

 

Also, it's got fuck all to do with Brexit.

[Bruce Spanner]

21 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Are you trying to spin that as a "Brexit is good" story, in the hope that none of us actually read it?

 

It says that the UK is catching up with other developed countries and that it won't regain pre-pandemic levels for a while; Eurozone countries will do that before the UK does.

 

Also, it's got fuck all to do with Brexit.

And also that expected growth is the lowest in the G7, by some distance in real terms, as confirmed by the ONS and various others, explicitly referencing Brexit as the cause.

 

It’s fucking pointless, Mal.

 

It’s all there and still people continue with this futile fantasy trying to pull at singular threads in the tapestry that might show anything, anything at all, which confirms their biases.

 

The facts are there, produced by our own fucking government and independent financial bodies, if they reject them, or worse obscure the ones that go against their little world view, then they’re beyond help.

 

Mogg, in Parliament no less, said himself that it ‘could’ take decades to see the benefits, if at all. All the while moving his operations overseas to protect his investments and profits, funnelled, of course, through offshore groups to avoid paying tax in the UK. His fucking father wrote the manual for this disaster capitalism bullshit! 

 

We’ve been had and anyone still clinging on to the sunlit uplands bullshit really need to give their heads a wobble and open their eyes for their own sake.

[Gnasher]

It's not bollocks at all, a lot of these poor fuckers haven't had a wage rise for donkeys years due to an oversaturated jobs market. Some of these people cannot even afford their own car so to brush aside a upgrade in working pay and conditions smacks of arrogant entitlement. 

 

 

[Gnasher]

I wonder if people had to put up with the shit described below they'd be so sorry to see the end of free movement? 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

23 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's not bollocks at all, a lot of these poor fuckers haven't had a wage rise for donkeys years due to an oversaturated jobs market. Some of these people cannot even afford their own car so to brush aside a upgrade in working pay and conditions smacks of arrogant entitlement. 

 

 

It's not a case of brushing anything aside. (Again - you're arguing against something that nobody here is saying.)

 

The point is that these pay rises will not last. I've given reasons - supported by links that you posted - why they won't last. 

 

Can you at least try to convince us why you think they will last.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

27 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's not bollocks at all, a lot of these poor fuckers haven't had a wage rise for donkeys years due to an oversaturated jobs market.

 

 

What about the people in the rest of the economy who haven't had a real-terms pay rise since the crash? It's obviously not EU migrant workers - beastly foreigners "oversaturation the jobs market" - that have kept their wages suppressed. What do you think it is?

[Bruce Spanner]

Imagine not knowing the difference between a ‘consequence of’ and a ‘benefit of’

 

Astounding. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's not a case of brushing anything aside. (Again - you're arguing against something that nobody here is saying.)

 

The point is that these pay rises will not last. I've given reasons - supported by links that you posted - why they won't last. 

 

Can you at least try to convince us why you think they will last.

I haven't said they will last, I honestly don't know, I certainly wouldn't turn a rise down on the basis they may not last, would you? Just getting the rise has surely got to be seen as a positive step though hasn't it? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I haven't said they will last, I honestly don't know, I certainly wouldn't turn a rise down on the basis they may not last, would you? Just getting the rise has surely got to be seen as a positive step though hasn't it? 

Yes. That's what I've been saying - it's positive, it's welcome, it's overdue... but you've really got to make an effort to ignore literally everything else that's happening in the country to justify getting the red, white & blue bunting out to celebrate Brexit.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's not a case of brushing anything aside. (Again - you're arguing against something that nobody here is saying.)

 

The point is that these pay rises will not last. I've given reasons - supported by links that you posted - why they won't last. 

 

Can you at least try to convince us why you think they will last.

One of the reasons was inflation? Inflation is low so its at best a lame excuse. 

 

Margaret Thatcher fought the 1979 election campaign on the basis of slaying the beast of inflation ( it was 20%) she ran around markets saying the fruit and veg was too expensive due to inflation. Unfortunately her campaign worked and she did indeed slay the so called beast of inflation (she got it down to 5% ) but the cost was businessess going bust and 3 million unemployed so whilst the price of veg stabilised grocers went out of business because no one could afford the veg.

 

In short, worrying about reasonable rises in inflation is similar to worrying over the rich leaving the country because you've raised the top rate of tax, its bollocks.. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

One of the reasons was inflation? Inflation is low so its at best a lame excuse. 

 

Margaret Thatcher fought the 1979 election campaign on the basis of slaying the beast of inflation ( it was 20%) she ran around markets saying the fruit and veg was too expensive due to inflation. Unfortunately her campaign worked and she did indeed slay the so called beast of inflation (she got it down to 5% ) but the cost was businessess going bust and 3 million unemployed so whilst the price of veg stabilised grocers went out of business because no one could afford the veg.

 

In short, worrying about reasonable rises in inflation is similar to worrying over the rich leaving the country because you've raised the top rate of tax, its bollocks.. 

You're wrong about inflation, for the reasons I've already explained.

 

You need to update your arguments: Thatcher is dead and so is the economic and political environment that she moved in; it's her bastard spawn in the 21st Century that we're dealing with.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You're wrong about inflation, for the reasons I've already explained.

 

You need to update your arguments: Thatcher is dead and so is the economic and political environment that she moved in; it's her bastard spawn in the 21st Century that we're dealing with.

Im not wrong about inflation at all Angry and you're right about Thatcher being dead but her philosophy of a low wage, low inflation, large available workforce lives on and you're advocating the Thatcher 1979 election campaign ideas. I recall her waving away wage increases as bad for inflation then and that's what you're doing now, the 3 million unemployed proved her philosophy to be 100% wrong.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

you're advocating the Thatcher 1979 election campaign ideas.

Nah. Nice try, Nobby, but I'm not biting.

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nah. Nice try, Nobby, but I'm not biting.

Worried about inflation? Tick.

 

Saying wage rises won't last? Tick.

 

Large available workforce? Tick.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You're wrong about inflation, for the reasons I've already explained.

 

Nah I'm not, inflation is very very low now, a Labour supporter spouting low inflation should imo be treated with about as much respect as someone touting the old maxing out the credit card nonsense. It really is another false bogeyman used by Conservatives to attain a low wage market.

Quote

You need to update your arguments: Thatcher is dead and so is the economic and political environment that she moved in; it's her bastard spawn in the 21st Century that we're dealing with.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/16/why-low-inflation-is-worrying-sign-of-uk-poor-economic-health

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Worried about inflation? Tick.

 

Saying wage rises won't last? Tick.

 

Large available workforce? Tick.

None of that adds up to advocating Thatcherism.

T'ick.