Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I'm not pitching our government against the EU, its not an either/or question although I do concede our government is far far worse than the EU and that's saying something.

That's not the point I'm making. 

 

I support the continued existence of the UK Government.  It could do with a drastic overhaul to make it more democratic and to better serve the people.  The leaders of the UK Government for the last few decades have mostly been twats and I oppose the racist and neoliberal shit that they do. But I don't want to dissolve the UK.

 

That's also my stance on the EU. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

We'll see.

Austerity is all about cutting public spending in a bid to cut public borrowing.

 

That report is about increasing public spending, financed by (EU level) public borrowing.

 

Admittedly, that's the only report I've seen about Fonda Lyin's visit.  It may well be that other stuff was discussed that was a bit more related to austerity; but the bit in that report really isn't. 

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Austerity is all about cutting public spending in a bid to cut public borrowing.

 

That report is about increasing public spending, financed by (EU level) public borrowing.

 

Admittedly, that's the only report I've seen about Fonda Lyin's visit.  It may well be that other stuff was discussed that was a bit more related to austerity; but the bit in that report really isn't. 

Yes she came bearing trinkets but eu history tells you the pain is around the corner.

[Gnasher]

26 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's not the point I'm making. 

 

I support the continued existence of the UK Government.  It could do with a drastic overhaul to make it more democratic and to better serve the people.  The leaders of the UK Government for the last few decades have mostly been twats and I oppose the racist and neoliberal shit that they do. But I don't want to dissolve the UK.

 

That's also my stance on the EU. 

Thats where we disagree. I'd devolve the EU in a heartbeat, and Nato, the UK government in its current guise can fuck off as well tbh.

[Moo]

Empty shelves and food shortages in the UK now being framed by the government as a consequence of the "pingdemic", news outlets toeing the line.  Two birds one stone, switch off the app and spread Covid, and deflect from it being Brexit related.  

We have this sociopathic incompetent government purely because of Brexit, entirely predictable and predicted (all except for their pandemic get out clause). 

The Brexit government in action. Get Brexit Done, herd immunity please, culture wars now, dilute workers rights, remove protest rights, let children starve, let children drown, destroy UK democracy, but above all, Get Brexit Done.

[Strontium]

The good news: 9% pay rise

The bad news: nothing to spend it on

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

The good news: 9% pay rise

The bad news: nothing to spend it on

You're going to the wrong shops. 

[cloggypop]

17 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Boss? Top poster anti EU no longer posts, and a few more. Come on.

Boss stopped posting after being arrested for upskirting. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Boss stopped posting after being arrested for upskirting. 

Pics or GTFO.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Boss stopped posting after being arrested for upskirting. 

He got caught when he asked the girl her name afterwards, for fear of a neg under Tentions' Law.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Boss stopped posting after being arrested for upskirting. 

Brought down many a good man that law, fucking eu to blame again,

 

 

https://www.mondaq.com/italy/crime/877192/europe-is-taking-upskirting-more-seriously

[Bruce Spanner]

Glorious Brexitania, all hail!

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-cost-leaving-eu-18billion-lost-trade-uk-eu-brussels-b947138.html

 

'The rising cost of Brexit to Britain was laid bare on Thursday as a new analysis showed quitting the EU had delivered an £18 billion blow to the UK’s trade in goods.

 

Official figures also showed the taxpayer has had to pick up a bill of more than £700 million spent by the Home Office on quitting the EU in just one year. The latest costings came as talks between the UK and Brussels remain deadlocked over the type of trade border between Northern Ireland and Britain agreed by the Government when it struck its Brexit deal.

 

The Centre for European Reform estimates that leaving the single market and customs union at the end of December 2020 had reduced UK trade by £10 billion, or 13.5 per cent, in May. The think tank said this was on top of a £8 billion, or 10 per cent, hit to trade between the June 2016 referendum and splintering away from the single market.

 

Its study is based on creating a “doppelgänger” for the UK trade in goods using data from a group of other similar countries to estimate what would have happened if Britain had stayed in the single market — and then comparing that with what has actually happened.

 

An annexe at the back of the annual report of Home Secretary Priti Patel’s department detailed how nearly £500 million of cash was used in day-to-day expenditure for “EU exit costs” for 2020-21. The most costly element was £143 million for the Border Force.

 

More than £82 million was spent on “core activity supporting EU transition”, nearly £77 million on UK visas and immigration, and nearly £85 million on digital, data and technology.

 

“Despite the Government’s rhetoric, Brexit has led to more red tape and a more intrusive state,” said John Springford, deputy director of the Centre for European Reform.

 

The Home Office said: “The British people voted to end free movement and take back control of our immigration system, which is precisely what we have delivered.”

 

The Home Office spent £714 million on activities relating to EU exit in 2020-21, against a budget of £747 million.

 

Less than two years after the Government struck its Brexit agreement, Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng today suggested the EU could back down in the row over the Northern Ireland protocol and agree to renegotiate it.'

[skend04]

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/07/22/a-convenient-scapegoat-empty-shelves-are-due-to-brexit-not-the-pingdemic-heres-the-evidence/

 

Gnasher "Just pay them £300/hr wibble dribble..."

[Gnasher]

On 22/07/2021 at 10:45, Gnasher said:

I'll admit its got a lot to do with Brexit. I also think it can be a good thing, people getting what they need rather than what they want. Also its about time we gave a greater degree of appreciation to those working in low paid mundane jobs which get food from the fields to our plates, how much do warehouse staff in tesco earn, or fruit and veg pickers, haulage drivers? Not enough is probably the correct answer. As with Covid and the NHS workers it shines a light on the worth of people in everyday occupations.

As I said above Skendy...

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, skend04 said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/07/22/a-convenient-scapegoat-empty-shelves-are-due-to-brexit-not-the-pingdemic-heres-the-evidence/

 

Gnasher "Just pay them £300/hr wibble dribble..."

 Ahh the owner of a haulage firm and the the owner of a farm.. ok, fuck the workers views what do they know?

 

Whilst we're cherrypicking landlords/employers thoughts can I ask for my own personal tory, can we have someone equally with their ear to the ground, I suggest Richard Branson.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/12/richard-branson-facing-backlash-over-plea-for-uk-bailout-of-virgin

[skend04]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-flag-covid-recovery-cash-councils-b1889502.html

 

But but but, taking back control and the £350m/week...heads will explode.

[redinblack]

4 hours ago, skend04 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-flag-covid-recovery-cash-councils-b1889502.html

 

 

 

But but but, taking back control and the £350m/week...heads will explode.

Its the soundbites that matter, this week that fat cunt said "jabs jabs jabs jobs jobs jobs" before he fucked off on holiday. I would say he insults our intelligence with that  but given the tory majority I.m not sure he does.

 

the 350 m was "illustrative" apparently - thats shorthand for "we lied"

 

but yes thats what it is , "we took our country back"

Dont need the EU telling us what to do.

Johnson

Gove

Rees Mogg

Patel

Sunak

Javid

the Cunt who runs education but his name escapes me now.

we have these cunts doing it, unfettered and shamelessly

 

But we have a trade deal with Australia which adds less than 1% to GDP over 10 years

We wont stick to deals we negotiated

We are about to fuck the US off, who we want to do a trade deal with, over the treatment of Northern Ireland.

 

Yes its good we have taken back control.

 

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, skend04 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-flag-covid-recovery-cash-councils-b1889502.html

 

But but but, taking back control and the £350m/week...heads will explode.

Your head might explode but as the only political party promising a new eu referendum is polling a whopping 9% I'd suggest bar for yourself and a load of Internet geeks most believe the EU issue is done and dusted. 

 

[skend04]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Your head might explode but as the only political party promising a new eu referendum is polling a whopping 9% I'd suggest bar for yourself and a load of Internet geeks most believe the EU issue is done and dusted. 

 

So not only do you not read or comprehend your own posts, this extends to other posts too. You'll have to show me where I've asked for another referendum. If it's more than once, several years ago, I'll be surprised. 

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, skend04 said:

So not only do you not read or comprehend your own posts, this extends to other posts too. You'll have to show me where I've asked for another referendum. If it's more than once, several years ago, I'll be surprised. 

I don't really care what you've asked for or what you've not asked for. I was talking in a more general manner. It's good that you're not personally bothered about another referendum as A. You won't be getting one, and B. If their was one you'd get hammered.

 

Very few (bar for the bosses, land owners and the baby Bentley mob) want a return to the times we flew in plane loads of Romanian fruit pickers,  East European builders, Polish warehouse workers or Latvian lorry drivers with the resulting suppression of wages and lowering of job security. That bird has flown.

 

With a bit of luck the Warehouse workers etc will follow the lorry drivers and we'll have a winter of discontent. Brexit/Covid has finally made people in this country value the contribution of low paid workers. It's been a long time coming and if it causes some disruption that's unfortunate but a price worth paying. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/24/lorry-drivers-plan-to-strike-over-low-pay-and-poor-working-conditions

[M_B]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Very few (bar for the bosses, land owners and the baby Bentley mob) want a return to the times we flew in plane loads of Romanian fruit pickers,  East European builders, Polish warehouse workers or Latvian lorry drivers with the resulting suppression of wages and lowering of job security. That bird has flown.

Certainly for this generation. Might be time to put this thread to bed and to start a new thread along the lines of "Should the UK join the EU?"

 

If the UK can continue to have access to the single market as agreed by the withdrawl agreement (i.e. no tariffs or restrictions on trading levels), then what would be the reasons to join, assuming visa's can be issued to cover shortfalls in labour supply? (Not really a question aimed at Gnasher)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

...with the resulting suppression of wages and lowering of job security. 

Immigrants don't drive down wages (except under a Tory Government and in the lowest-paid sectors) or job security.  Your own links show that.

 

There's nothing the Tories and exploitative bosses love more than working class people blaming other working class people. I'm not falling for it: unity is strength and all that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, M_B said:

Certainly for this generation. Might be time to put this thread to bed and to start a new thread along the lines of "Should the UK join the EU?"

 

If the UK can continue to have access to the single market as agreed by the withdrawl agreement (i.e. no tariffs or restrictions on trading levels), then what would be the reasons to join, assuming visa's can be issued to cover shortfalls in labour supply? (Not really a question aimed at Gnasher)

Generally speaking, to get unhindered access to the Single Market your goods and services have to meet all the standards set by the EU.   If you're not a Member, you have no say in setting those standards; to paraphrase one of the lies usd by the Leave campaign and apply it to the truth, by joining the EU  you become a rule-maker, not a rule-taker.

[M_B]

Yeah agreed, but I don't think that is sufficient reason to convince most to join the EU. If there were tariffs to trade then I suspect more would see the economic value in it, but otherwise it is difficult to convince people like Gnasher to accept things like freedom of movement for a voice in decision making.

[skend04]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I don't really care what you've asked for or what you've not asked for. I was talking in a more general manner. It's good that you're not personally bothered about another referendum as A. You won't be getting one, and B. If their was one you'd get hammered.

 

Very few (bar for the bosses, land owners and the baby Bentley mob) want a return to the times we flew in plane loads of Romanian fruit pickers,  East European builders, Polish warehouse workers or Latvian lorry drivers with the resulting suppression of wages and lowering of job security. That bird has flown.

 

With a bit of luck the Warehouse workers etc will follow the lorry drivers and we'll have a winter of discontent. Brexit/Covid has finally made people in this country value the contribution of low paid workers. It's been a long time coming and if it causes some disruption that's unfortunate but a price worth paying. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/24/lorry-drivers-plan-to-strike-over-low-pay-and-poor-working-conditions

You sound like a scorned ex. It'd just be another election you wouldn't vote in but it would give you an opportunity to whine on a football forum for 5 more years. Everton behaviour.