Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I notice you ignored the main point/plus of the kids getting more apprenticeships, not your thing? 

Only 2/3 apprenticeships lead to jobs.  Too often they're used as exploitative cheap labour; that's not my thing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

As I said last time you posted this: it's a pity. Overpriced housing is just bad for everyone. That would have been a "Brexit bonus" I could get behind. 

[Captain Howdy]

16 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Only 2/3 apprenticeships lead to jobs. 

 

[Captain Howdy]

FWIW I think it’s a good thing that the sky hasn’t fallen in as so many predicted would happen, it’s best for everyone that this thing works out, I do think long term that it is a mistake though and I wish we had voted to stay.

[Gooch]

A house price crash will not do anyone any favours except the rich, not sure why anyone would want to get behind something like that.

[Gnasher]

36 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Only 2/3 apprenticeships lead to jobs.  Too often they're used as exploitative cheap labour; that's not my thing.

And your magical method for training the next generation of carpenters, welders, bricklayers, plumbers, bar from importing them from Latvia is?

[Bruce Spanner]

19 minutes ago, Gooch said:

A house price crash will not do anyone any favours except the rich, not sure why anyone would want to get behind something like that.

Sunaks stamp duty holiday could potentially become really problematic down the line.

 

Lots of negative equity, especially with negative interest rates and rising inflation, in first time buyers homes and private landlords buying up in record numbers due to the significant savings available.

 

A perfect storm of sorts.

 

But yeah, Brexit. Yey!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

And your magical method for training the next generation of carpenters, welders, bricklayers, plumbers, bar from importing them from Latvia is?

No magic required. Just tighten up the laws around apprenticeships, so they all lead to recognisable qualifications and real jobs. Also, pay apprentices properly. 

 

The point is that, under current laws, an increase in the number of apprenticeships is not proof that the sunlit uplands have arrived. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

30 minutes ago, Gooch said:

A house price crash will not do anyone any favours except the rich, not sure why anyone would want to get behind something like that.

It would help the millions of people who can't afford a home of their own.

 

The best way to achieve a much-needed reset of the UK's housing market would probably be a massive programme of public-sector house building.  And if it's public-sector led, decent pay and good quality apprenticeships could be built into the contracts.

 

Of course, there would be no reason to leave the EU to achieve this. Any UK Government of the last 40 years could have done this, but they chose not to. 

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No magic required. Just tighten up the laws around apprenticeships, so they all lead to recognisable qualifications and real jobs. Also, pay apprentices properly. 

 

The point is that, under current laws, an increase in the number of apprenticeships is not proof that the sunlit uplands have arrived. 

I spent many a year involved in the training of young construction workers Angry and it was a two way sword, the term rough diamond could have been coined for most teenage working class kids. Many apprenticests changed course as that particular skill didn't suit them (as many university students change subjects) but on the whole it's a valuable experience for these kids which many wouldn't otherwise get and it often leads to a well paid career. I think the average wage for a bricklayer in Liverpool is approx £900 for a forty hour week, not bad money and most are probably time served former apprentice workers.

[Moctezuma]

19 minutes ago, Gooch said:

A house price crash will not do anyone any favours except the rich, not sure why anyone would want to get behind something like that.

I pray day and night that this happens, it might actually enable me and countless others to buy a house. The endless rise in house prices is causing some seriously negative effects for the younger parts of the population (;lack of savings due to being forced into high private rents, the associated issues of having not paid off the mortgage or renting/lack of savings when hitting retirement, relationship break-ups caused by lack of private space and home security, delayed starts to families- can't really bring up a kid in a bedroom in shared flat*, lack of housing security in private rents for young families and the impact that has on educational performance, increased conflicts within households caused by limited space and facilities, the mental impact of no light at the end of the tunnel in owning your own place in a 'property owning democracy', greater reliance on older family members/inheritance to support children to buy and increased likelihood of disputes over money) and our government are using every trick in the book to boost the bottom of the market to keep it buoyant, in part because the major property firms and home builders give them huge slabs of cash for donations.

 

A house price crash may even effect the Conservatives endless high poll ratings as it is retirees who own property (one of multiple) who comprise of their locked-in 37%+ base. They would have been crushed at the last two elections had the vote solely been the working age population. A kleptocratic gentocracy at it's best.

 

*This inevitably will have greater health impacts for children and mothers

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I spent many a year involved in the training of young construction workers Angry and it was a two way sword, the term rough diamond could have been coined for most teenage working class kids. Many apprenticests changed course as that particular skill didn't suit them (as many university students change subjects) but on the whole it's a valuable experience for these kids which many wouldn't otherwise get and it often leads to a well paid career. I think the average wage for a bricklayer in Liverpool is approx £900 for a forty hour week, not bad money and most are probably time served former apprentice workers.

Like I say, we need good quality apprenticeships (like the ones you describe).

[Captain Howdy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57544235

[Gooch]

9 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It would help the millions of people who can't afford a home of their own.

 

The best way to achieve a much-needed reset of the UK's housing market would probably be a massive programme of public-sector house building.  And if it's public-sector led, decent pay and good quality apprenticeships could be built into the contracts.

 

Of course, there would be no reason to leave the EU to achieve this. Any UK Government of the last 40 years could have done this, but they chose not to. 

It really wouldn't, it would most likely do the complete opposite. Any crash would be caused by wider macro economic downturn. The countries economy is basically built on propping up the housing market, so if that was to dump there would be far bigger problems at hand and the idea that your average person would be able to come in and start buying up cheaper housing just isn't happening. They will be more concerned with keeping their job if they are lucky. It would leave the door wide open for the rich to sweep in and buy it all up at knockdown prices.

 

Increasing the housing supply won't solve anything either. That's not even what is driving this housing boom, it's cheap rates and the help to buy scam.

There are no easy solutions really, maybe the best thing is to embrace the private rental sector and have water tight regulations to back it up, the country is too invested in the housing ponzi to try and and pop it now.

[Gooch]

9 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

I pray day and night that this happens, it might actually enable me and countless others to buy a house. The endless rise in house prices is causing some seriously negative effects for the younger parts of the population (;lack of savings due to being forced into high private rents, the associated issues of having not paid off the mortgage or renting/lack of savings when hitting retirement, relationship break-ups caused by lack of private space and home security, delayed starts to families- can't really bring up a kid in a bedroom in shared flat*, lack of housing security in private rents for young families and the impact that has on educational performance, increased conflicts within households caused by limited space and facilities, the mental impact of no light at the end of the tunnel in owning your own place in a 'property owning democracy', greater reliance on older family members/inheritance to support children to buy and increased likelihood of disputes over money) and our government are using every trick in the book to boost the bottom of the market to keep it buoyant, in part because the major property firms and home builders give them huge slabs of cash for donations.

 

A house price crash may even effect the Conservatives endless high poll ratings as it is retirees who own property (one of multiple) who comprise of their locked-in 37%+ base. They would have been crushed at the last two elections had the vote solely been the working age population. A kleptocratic gentocracy at it's best.

 

*This inevitably will have greater health impacts for children and mothers

 

 

In what world do house prices crash in a stable economic environment allowing the rental sector or people living at home etc to swoop in and buy up cheap housing and everyone lives happily ever after? Utter fantasy.

[Moctezuma]

4 hours ago, Gooch said:

In what world do house prices crash in a stable economic environment allowing the rental sector or people living at home etc to swoop in and buy up cheap housing and everyone lives happily ever after? Utter fantasy.

You own your home Gooch don't you, it's written large in your posts, your view of this is being heavily dictated by your economic circumstances, if you are unable to acknowledge that then don't bother posting about it. I will freely admit that I'm on the other side of the coin locked out of home ownership and watching as my money gets flushed down the drain each month. This is invariably effecting my outlook on the situation.

 

A period of contraction and negative equity obviously would cause significant economic distress, but if that enables the housing market to actually return to something resembling the purpose it's there to serve (I.e. house people in their own homes or those owned by the state and housing associations). To achieve that heavy regulation obviously be needed on second home ownership and blocking of entire parasitic activity.

 

The notion that things are fine and dandy just now and that the system isn't a towering bubble of asset accumulation waiting to pop and that all we need if a bit of light touch regulation around private rents if frankly imbecilic. You seem to suggest that only the rich and rentiers will profit from a collapse when right now those are the only fuckers who can afford the things anyway and are profiting substantially already, only being joined by a tiny smattering of those who are being heavily backed by the state funds directed from Tory HQ for social engineering purposes. Who is going to buy these housing units in the future when all of the working class and middle class have been priced out? The rich/ firms using it as investment vehicles? One would assume that will eventually tell. Without a required market adjustment the concentration of housing  among the wealthy you seem to be so concerned about will be exacerbated.

 

As you mentioned in the above post it's a ponzi scheme that is absolutely crippling the lives of so many people and concentrating wealth for those at the top, if that were to be buffeted then they might finally have to start investing elsewhere to get some returns rather than making huge sections of the populations lives miserable in the here and now.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 19/06/2021 at 15:08, Gnasher said:

Or is it just the landowners we are allowed to be concerned about?

Having seen the pictures on the gardening thread, I'm reconsidering my reaction to this.

 

We have got some major landowners on this forum!

[Gnasher]

50 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Having seen the pictures on the gardening thread, I'm reconsidering my reaction to this.

 

We have got some major landowners on this forum!

Any hire planes to fly in Romanian workers during the first wave of a pandemic? 

 

I think the disdain you show for even the smallest increases to the lives of working class professions whilst simultaneously bending over backwards to defend and protect the profits of tory landowners shows how far the modern day Labour Party has strayed from its base. 

 

Rather see a construction site worker living on a council estate enjoy his overdue 10% pay rise to be honest than rich farmers making profit form modern day slavery 

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-jobs-row-as-romanian-fruit-pickers-arrive-for-harvest-11974364

[Gooch]

13 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

You own your home Gooch don't you, it's written large in your posts, your view of this is being heavily dictated by your economic circumstances, if you are unable to acknowledge that then don't bother posting about it. I will freely admit that I'm on the other side of the coin locked out of home ownership and watching as my money gets flushed down the drain each month. This is invariably effecting my outlook on the situation.

 

A period of contraction and negative equity obviously would cause significant economic distress, but if that enables the housing market to actually return to something resembling the purpose it's there to serve (I.e. house people in their own homes or those owned by the state and housing associations). To achieve that heavy regulation obviously be needed on second home ownership and blocking of entire parasitic activity.

 

The notion that things are fine and dandy just now and that the system isn't a towering bubble of asset accumulation waiting to pop and that all we need if a bit of light touch regulation around private rents if frankly imbecilic. You seem to suggest that only the rich and rentiers will profit from a collapse when right now those are the only fuckers who can afford the things anyway and are profiting substantially already, only being joined by a tiny smattering of those who are being heavily backed by the state funds directed from Tory HQ for social engineering purposes. Who is going to buy these housing units in the future when all of the working class and middle class have been priced out? The rich/ firms using it as investment vehicles? One would assume that will eventually tell. Without a required market adjustment the concentration of housing  among the wealthy you seem to be so concerned about will be exacerbated.

 

As you mentioned in the above post it's a ponzi scheme that is absolutely crippling the lives of so many people and concentrating wealth for those at the top, if that were to be buffeted then they might finally have to start investing elsewhere to get some returns rather than making huge sections of the populations lives miserable in the here and now.

Yes I do own a house, and whilst there is an element of that, it seems you're mainly using it to undermine the argument rather than addressing the point at hand in any meaningful way. One of the biggest financial crisis in history saw house prices drop 15% so for any more than than yet you're probably asking for some sort of financial meltdown, your average person will not be in a position to buy in anyway, me owning a house doesn't make that wrong.

Not really sure why you acknowledge that I said its a ponzi but then also claim i think things are fine and dandy but could be misinterpreting it. If there are examples of a period of time where house prices fell sharply with economic stability then I would reconsider my point completely but not seen anything to suggest otherwise, seems to be more out of hope than anything else.

I don't really have a decent solution I just know that a big dump in prices will more than likely create more problems than they solve is all.

[Bruce Spanner]

This one argument is becoming really fucking boring, especially as it’s filled with holes, it’s almost like you’ve learnt your lines.

 

There’s food shortages in the major supermarkets, it’ll be in the news over the next day or two…

 

[Bruce Spanner]

Did someone say something?

The locals are starting, the nationals will follow soon. 
 

It’s based around lack of drivers and imports being significantly reduced.

 

We also have the ‘grace period’ removed on the 1st of July.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.northantslive.news/news/aldi-morrisons-asda-tesco-waitrose-5510564.amp
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/latest-update-sainsburys-morrisons-waitrose-19510544.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/tesco-asda-aldi-morrisons-waitrose-20775753.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/shortage-supermarket-tesco-asda-morrisons-20472629.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/tesco-morrisons-sainsburys-waitrose-issue-20046819.amp

 

Almost amusing.

 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Seriously your sources are the Northants chronicle and the Daily Express ? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/food/1452211/food-shortages-workers-shortage-britain-brexit-covid-supply-chain/amp

 

 

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Seriously your sources are the Northants chronicle and the Daily Express but on the one clutching at straws  ? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/food/1452211/food-shortages-workers-shortage-britain-brexit-covid-supply-chain/amp

 

 

Northampton is a major hub for transportation. Have you seen the massive fuck off warehouses all around there? 
 

One of my best mates is a

director of a transport company supplying a major supermarket for posh people and he’s just sent me this;

 

Number of things going on there. Normally 70k tests every year due to CV only 23k last year
IR35 new legislation means if you are dedicated to a single contract you can’t have your own company which a lot of drivers have as the only employee. Costs them now £3k a year more in tax so they have furloughed themselves
Eastern European’s have gone home or not come back because of travel restrictions and wanting to be with family

No European drivers in the UK due to border issues between countries so leaving all UK and European work to UK

Costs up 13% and U.K. 45k drivers short. 

 

[Rico1304]

Final part;

 

Govt needs to bin IR35 should be designed for £200k consultants not HGV drivers and change their stance on letting them back into UK by classifying the role as specialist. Summer will be really difficult as existing drivers will have hols, people will not fuck off abroad so uk food volumes will be sustained. Govt dragging their feet need to do something in the next month or it will start to bite massively

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Final part;

 

Govt needs to bin IR35 should be designed for £200k consultants not HGV drivers and change their stance on letting them back into UK by classifying the role as specialist. Summer will be really difficult as existing drivers will have hols, people will not fuck off abroad so uk food volumes will be sustained. Govt dragging their feet need to do something in the next month or it will start to bite massively

 

Fuck off with your facts and shit, Rico.

 

We don't need it here.