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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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The UK government will never do anything to seriously try and tackle people trafficking, whether in the EU or not. 

 

The square mile makes too much money out of laundering the proceeds for anyone who could do something about it to actually make it a priority to try and stop it. 

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14 hours ago, Gnasher said:

He's an integral part of the EU machine you're so fond of Angry, you've obviously missed him on our TV screens negotiating our eu withdrawal the past two years. 

Have you actually read and/or understood anything I've posted on this thread?

 

Please stop chatting shite. It got boring years ago. 

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14 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Take part in campaigns? Haha I think you need to educate yourself angry never mind me., start with John Smith's Labour manifesto. Wealthy landowners flying in low paid workers in planes during a pandemic for fucks sake, and where was the outrage from the modern day Labour Party? No wonder they're fucked.

 

"The EU policy on immigration is not working" 

 

"Traffickers are a major problem" 

Michael Barnier. 

 

 

https://www.cityam.com/michel-barnier-calls-for-halt-to-immigration-across-europe/amp/?utm_content=buffer4a87b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

Wibble.

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8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Wibble.

It's not wibble at all. I've fought injustice all my life, I've been hospitalised physically fighting injustice, I was actually beaten by a police officer. Ive put myself in serious danger fighting various factions of the right wing in this country, all over this country, so don't talk down to me. 

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27 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Evidence?

Open your eyes. The drugs trade has seen an explosion in traffickers over the past 20 years or so. British County lines, Albanians, Romanians, East Europeans, Vietnamese take a large quota. Difficult to contain but until Labour are seen as a political party that recognise the scale of the problem they're fucked, the voters will not believe they are on their side.

 

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/nearly-7-000-potential-victims-of-slavery-and-trafficking-reported-in-2018

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26 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's not wibble at all. I've fought injustice all my life, I've been hospitalised physically fighting injustice, I was actually beaten by a police officer. Ive put myself in serious danger fighting various factions of the right wing in this country, all over this country, so don't talk down to me. 

None of that was in your post. Your post made no sense.

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7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Open your eyes. The drugs trade has seen an explosion in traffickers over the past 20 years or so. British County lines, Albanians, Romanians, East Europeans, Vietnamese take a large quota. Difficult to contain but until Labour are seen as a political party that recognise the scale of the problem they're fucked, the voters will not believe they are on their side.

 

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/nearly-7-000-potential-victims-of-slavery-and-trafficking-reported-in-2018

 

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's almost in every major city, all areas, all races, all types, all sexes all ages. Everywhere. 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/police-reveal-4200-slavery-victims-18584100

 

So... no evidence that EU policy has resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking, then.

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1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

None of that was in your post. Your post made no sense.

Sorry I was probably ranting. The problem is real though and it's the most tory thing that could possibly be, free enterprise in the trade of people. The labour party should really be all over it Angry, instead they seem to ignore social issues and let the tories spout their often borderline racist bullshit. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-48881327

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Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

So... no evidence that EU policy has resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking, then.

I've always said globalisation, poverty and inequality are the main contributing factors,  the most forms are within the UK (county lines, prostitution, farm labour, gangs etc) but as Barnier said yesterday eu expansion has contributed to the problems. If you deny it you are forever going to be ruled by a conservative government.

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Just now, Gnasher said:

Sorry I was probably ranting. The problem is real though and it's the most tory thing that could possibly be, free enterprise in the trade of people. The labour party should really be all over it Angry, instead they seem to ignore social issues and let the tories spout their often borderline racist bullshit. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-48881327

The Labour Party are a bit shit, probably because there's no votes in it. The unions are a bit more active in campaigning against slavery because the rights of workers - all workers - is sort of their thing.

 

When it comes to international people trafficking, the consensus of every campaigner I've ever come across is that you need to strengthen the rights of migrant workers in order to tackle trafficking and slavery.  The main purpose of Brexit was to weaken the rights of migrant workers.  The problems with that are obvious. 

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1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

I've always said globalisation, poverty and inequality are the main contributing factors,  the most forms are within the UK (county lines, prostitution, farm labour, gangs etc) but as Barnier said yesterday eu expansion has contributed to the problems. If you deny it you are forever going to be ruled by a conservative government.

Stick to the subject.  What you specifically said was that EU policy  (which gives migrant workers the right to live and work in other Member States) resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking.  You've got no evidence to back that up, because it probably isn't true.

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1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Stick to the subject.  What you specifically said was that EU policy  (which gives migrant workers the right to live and work in other Member States) resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking.  You've got no evidence to back that up, because it probably isn't true.

See this is the problem with todays Labour party, can't see the wood for the trees. I'm I'm no doubt you mean we'll and are a good socialist all round good fella angry but these are the problems of today, unless the party fights against it they're socially fucked, people just won't vote for them.

 

Barnier, one of the EU main players acknowledged the problem of traffickers in the EU just yesterday Angry, for once he's 100% correct. 

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11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The Labour Party are a bit shit, probably because there's no votes in it. The unions are a bit more active in campaigning against slavery because the rights of workers - all workers - is sort of their thing.

 

When it comes to international people trafficking, the consensus of every campaigner I've ever come across is that you need to strengthen the rights of migrant workers in order to tackle trafficking and slavery.  The main purpose of Brexit was to weaken the rights of migrant workers.  The problems with that are obvious. 

No votes in it? It's probably one of the main reasons Labour are not in power, economic policy's yes, Social policy no. 

 

As for unions dealing "with that sort of thing" we are talking thugs and armed gangmasters who force people into rat infested squalor, they don't give you a health and safety talk and ask for your union card.

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19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

See this is the problem with todays Labour party, can't see the wood for the trees. I'm I'm no doubt you mean we'll and are a good socialist all round good fella angry but these are the problems of today, unless the party fights against it they're socially fucked, people just won't vote for them.

 

Barnier, one of the EU main players acknowledged the problem of traffickers in the EU just yesterday Angry, for once he's 100% correct. 

I'm not even sure you know what you're on about any more.

 

Since you can't provide any evidence for your claim that EU policy resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking, it might be less embarrassing if we agree to pretend you never said it and move on.

 

The important things to remember are

1. Reducing rights for migrant workers strengthens the position of people traffickers and slavers.

2. Brexit reduces rights for EU citizens coming to work in the UK. 

3. There are very few things in existence less relevant than a decontextualised soundbite from a rank outsider in another country's elections.

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54 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

None of that was in your post. Your post made no sense.

Angry these people are hypocrites, just like our politicians. If Barnier and the EU would have wavered a little on free movement we would probably still be in the EU today, and I wouldn't mind that at all, I'd probably prefer us in but they are charlatans.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No votes in it? It's probably one of the main reasons Labour are not in power, economic policy's yes, Social policy no. 

Morally, Labour obviously should campaign on a platform of stronger action against slavery and trafficking.  But if you can find it anywhere on any lists of voters' concerns, I'd be very impressed.

 

28 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

As for unions dealing "with that sort of thing" we are talking thugs and armed gangmasters who force people into rat infested squalor, they don't give you a health and safety talk and ask for your union card.

I said unions campaign against slavery. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'm not even sure you know what you're on about any more.

 

Since you can't provide any evidence for your claim that EU policy resulted in an upsurge in people trafficking, it might be less embarrassing if we agree to pretend you never said it and move on.

 

The important things to remember are

1. Reducing rights for migrant workers strengthens the position of people traffickers and slavers.

2. Brexit reduces rights for EU citizens coming to work in the UK. 

3. There are very few things in existence less relevant than a decontextualised soundbite from a rank outsider in another country's elections.

Angry Michael Barnier mentioned the problem of immigration and EU traffickers just yesterday. Of course with increased globalisation and EU expansion their will be an increase, not just because of the EU but everywhere, Vietnam being a major country, its the way the world's gone, EU expansion also brought challenges and that's what Barnier has acknowledged. That's all. 

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11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Angry these people are hypocrites, just like our politicians. If Barnier and the EU would have wavered a little on free movement we would probably still be in the EU today, and I wouldn't mind that at all, I'd probably prefer us in but they are charlatans.

 

 

Nobody is talking about free movement for EU citizens. 

 

20210512_145351.png

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7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Morally, Labour obviously should campaign on a platform of stronger action against slavery and trafficking.  But if you can find it anywhere on any lists of voters' concerns, I'd be very impressed.

 

I said unions campaign against slavery. 

On your above point angry I'd put it in with various social issues like the gang of mainly Polish traffickers I linked caught in the Midlands. 

 

Some people think a bit different to use leftys Angry, I don't want to talk down on people but let's say they're not quite so cosmopolitan. Ie, I've lived in Cardiff, Liverpool, London and Bristol, all thriving multi cultural left wing cities, all near docklands etc. I've also worked all over the country, the point I'm trying to make is when you go to these places people are often a bit more hesitant and inclusive, I'm trying to pick my words carefully here Angry, many are socially conservative with a small c if you get my drift.Hmm I'm not sure I'm making sense here, they're not so welcoming of change as us, it's the way they are and it's the voters Labour need to win back.

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6 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nobody is talking about free movement for EU citizens. 

 

20210512_145351.png

I know, I've read it. A lot of its bollocks because he's facing the public for once in his life,  however a lot of it ( the traffickers part) is true, why didn't he say it before?

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11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nobody is talking about free movement for EU citizens. 

 

20210512_145351.png

Free movement is fantastic for a small set of middle class European workers to move more easily throughout Europe, all good, they can still move mind they are not bound and gagged it just makes it easier. However free movement is also bonanza time for employers to bring in cheap Labour from other European countries, its a free enterprise wet dream.

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34 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

On your above point angry I'd put it in with various social issues like the gang of mainly Polish traffickers I linked caught in the Midlands. 

 

Some people think a bit different to use leftys Angry, I don't want to talk down on people but let's say they're not quite so cosmopolitan. Ie, I've lived in Cardiff, Liverpool, London and Bristol, all thriving multi cultural left wing cities, all near docklands etc. I've also worked all over the country, the point I'm trying to make is when you go to these places people are often a bit more hesitant and inclusive, I'm trying to pick my words carefully here Angry, many are socially conservative with a small c if you get my drift.Hmm I'm not sure I'm making sense here, they're not so welcoming of change as us, it's the way they are and it's the voters Labour need to win back.

There's no question that the promise of reducing the number of immigrants was a major factor behind the Brexit vote.  Unfortunately, it was sold on a lie: people who repeatedly vote (in General Elections as well as in the Referendum) to reduce immigration are misinformed and misguided, because it's not the immigrants who are causing their problems and getting rid of immigrants won't solve their problems. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't know how Labour or any other party could get that message across without the  (understandable) reaction "Fuck off, you patronising shit, I'm voting for the other lot."

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33 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Free movement is fantastic for a small set of middle class European workers to move more easily throughout Europe, all good, they can still move mind they are not bound and gagged it just makes it easier. However free movement is also bonanza time for employers to bring in cheap Labour from other European countries, its a free enterprise wet dream.

Free movement on its own isn't the problem.  (As a general principle, increasing workers' rights is a good thing. ) The problem is (as was the case in the UK) when you combine free movement with poor workers' rights and deliberately weakened unions. That's a free pass for exploitative bosses to use migrant workers to undercut the local workforce. (Where you have poor workers' rights without free movement, then you're providing fertile ground for slavers. )

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