Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Rushies tash]

21 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Here are what Guardian readers were predicting in August including the UK becoming the new Greece and being bailed out by the IMF. I think that’s pretty hyperbolic. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/so-project-fear-was-in-fact-reality-readers-on-no-deal-brexit-funding

The letter says risks. Can you argue with the rest of it? We won't be able to talk about any financial hit because of the amount being borrowed to pay for the response to Covid (which, incidentally, Sunak is getting a free ride for. Compare that to the hysteria that surrounded Labour's response to the banking crisis.)

 

Edit: And we're a bit premature to be laughing about bailouts when our national debt is now 100% of gdp.

 

[cloggypop]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-55348047

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, cloggypop said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-55348047

You're not seriously suggesting that's a direct consequence of us pulling out of the EU ? 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, cloggypop said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-55348047

cough....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/15/dutch-government-resigns-over-child-benefits-scandal

[Bruce Spanner]

4 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Here are what Guardian readers were predicting in August including the UK becoming the new Greece and being bailed out by the IMF. I think that’s pretty hyperbolic. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/so-project-fear-was-in-fact-reality-readers-on-no-deal-brexit-funding

 

Here's what they are reporting today.

 

Project reality.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/31/brexit-trade-troubles-teething-problems-endemic-disruption

 

Stop drinking the Tory Kool-Aid, you're making yourself look silly.

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

24 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Well I suggest we reserve judgement for a few months. The article conceded that 95% of movements are happening normally so the issue is will that 5% get better or worse. I’m an optimist, industry will adapt, apps will be written to produce the paperwork and this will get sorted. 

 

Or, we could let the experts voice their concerns for the short, medium and long term and we can stop this slow rot conservative bullshit you espouse.

 

https://home.kpmg/uk/en/home/media/press-releases/2020/11/kpmg-forecasts-show-brexit-blow-to-uk-recovery-after-covid.html

 

https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2020/06/record-gdp-contraction-forecast-for-q2-2020-but-economic-recovery-in-sight-for-next-year-says-new-ey-item-club-forecast

 

https://www.ft.com/content/98d2c130-ac89-4eea-97a3-dc4636adc95d

 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/goldman-sachs-cuts-uk-gdp-outlook-sees-double-dip-recession-2021-1-1029942988

 

ALL of these predict hard times as a result of Brexit, with, conservative, estimates looking at retuns to 2018/19 levels not seen until, at least,  2023, and that's if everything goes 'well'.

 

This doesn't even factor in the logisitical, operational and fight or flight response of buisness' which can easily move to the continent and do their work there without the bullshit.

 

There's a lot of 'I'm alright, Jack' coming from your direction and it's very, very obvious and very, very fucking galling.

 

Sunlit uplands, indeed.

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

European journalism is much better than ours. Here's Des Spiegels (the mirror) informed take on the Germanys Dido Harding and the EU vaccine role out..

 

 

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp?__twitter_impression=true

[Gnasher]

The Aussies not that keen on the German royal family handling of the vaccine rollout either .

 

 

https://www.afr.com/world/europe/vaccine-debacle-could-further-tarnish-the-eu-s-global-reputation-20210201-p56yao?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1612135043

[Gnasher]

Japan, Korea and Canada not happy now with the Vonn Trapp family singers vaccine policy either..

 

 

 

For the eu to retain any credibility she really should resign. Shes managed to make Boris Johnsons government look competent and that's some achievement.

 

In the cold light of day what were they thinking trying to impose a hard border on a country as volatile as Ireland without informing the elected governments of either north or south? A border idea the eu spent years rejecting with good reason.

 

Is she out of her fucking mind?

[Gnasher]

What is it with these people? Those who descend from wealth and entitlement seem to lack any form of self awareness. Johnson and top tories, Trumps kids, Royalty etc yet they possess pomp, bluster and bad judgement in spades.

 

Heres the aristocrat idiot of the moment making her first public announcement for 14 hours after the vaccine debacle.

 

You would thing she'd make an apology to the people of Northern Ireland and Europe and say shes working night and day to iron out vaccination problems  but Oh no, she's got more important things on her mind. Like playing the big political world leader for the gantry below.The fact she was a candidate of one in her own election has obviously flown over her head.

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

Are you having some sort of breakdown? 

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Are you having some sort of breakdown? 

I'm absolutely fine Skippy, thanks for the concern.

[Anubis]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I'm absolutely fine Skippy, thanks for the concern.

Mate, she’s not going to shag you.

[Gnasher]

17 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Mate, she’s not going to shag you.

Not a bad idea, shes certainly not short of a shilling. Her ancestors built one of their many houses to match the White House but insisted on it being slightly larger. Just my type of girl. She makes Diana Spencer look like a tea lady. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Leyen

[Bruce Spanner]

This is fascinating for those with a half hour spare.

 

It goes in to all the possible scenarios post Brexit and where we meet and where we diverge and what potential outcomes may arise.

 

Bleak for industry, but bottoms up for financial services!

 

https://www.global-counsel.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/Doing things differently.pdf

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 hours ago, Gnasher said:

You're not seriously suggesting that's a direct consequence of us pulling out of the EU ? 

Says the man who blames every bad thing in the world on the existence of the EU. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Here are what Guardian readers were predicting in August including the UK becoming the new Greece and being bailed out by the IMF. I think that’s pretty hyperbolic. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/so-project-fear-was-in-fact-reality-readers-on-no-deal-brexit-funding

That's people talking about what would happen if the UK left without a deal.

 

The UK left with a deal: a shit deal, which leaves us a lot worse off than if we'd remained in the EU, but a deal nonetheless. 

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Says the man who blames every bad thing in the world on the existence of the EU. 

Do I? Dont think so. I think you'll find I blame a lot on our own government as well. I can multi task when i apportion blame on political leaders.

 

I suppose its fanciful to ask for the political organisations that rule us try to narrow the wealth divide, try to lower youth unemployment and try to take action on climate change. Things that both our own government and eu have been fucking woeful on.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Do I? Dont think so. I think you'll find I blame a lot on our own government as well. I can multi task when i apportion blame on political leaders.

 

I suppose its fanciful to ask for the political organisations that rule us try to narrow the wealth divide, try to lower youth unemployment and try to take action on climate change. Things that both our own government and eu have been fucking woeful on.

That's not fanciful at all; but you do have a habit of laying too much blame at the door of the EU and giving national governments  (e.g. the Spanish government who attacked Catalan separatists and the French government who keep whaling the tar out of anti-government protesters) a more-or-less free pass.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I voted Remain in the referendum, I travel to Europe a lot with work, 95% of my work colleagues are French/Dutch/Germans and I was embarrassed by the anti europe sentiment in this country. However since the vote, the EU have behaved dreadfully so I now think we are better off out. It is clear that they are terrified that we will make a success of Brexit so are making life difficult for us. The petty friction re the forms at the border is all coming from the European side and the threat to invoke a hard border in NI to stop vaccine exports just shows they don't give a fuck about starting another decade of terrorism in this country.  I think Brexit was a big mistake but the EU have subsequently given a lot of evidence for the Leaver case. 

Really???

 

There is no danger of Brexit being "a success"; even the UK Government's own forecasts show that, in all scenarios, the UK will be worse off than if we had remained in the EU. 

 

In the five and a half years since the Referendum, the UK Government has deliberately stalled, vacillated and generally twatted about, to the extent that a deal couldn't be signed until the final week of the transition period. Is it any wonder that it's not perfectly smooth right now?  The "petty friction re forms" comes about because 51.9% of UK voters wanted to remove frictionless movement of people and goods. The threat to invoke Article 16 was, no doubt, a fuck up (which they quickly backtracked on) but make no mistake that the lasting threat to peace in Ireland comes from Brexit itself (which inevitably creates some sort of "border", either in Ireland or in the Irish Sea).

[Bjornebye]

21 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I voted Remain in the referendum, I travel to Europe a lot with work, 95% of my work colleagues are French/Dutch/Germans and I was embarrassed by the anti europe sentiment in this country. However since the vote, the EU have behaved dreadfully so I now think we are better off out. It is clear that they are terrified that we will make a success of Brexit so are making life difficult for us. The petty friction re the forms at the border is all coming from the European side and the threat to invoke a hard border in NI to stop vaccine exports just shows they don't give a fuck about starting another decade of terrorism in this country.  I think Brexit was a big mistake but the EU have subsequently given a lot of evidence for the Leaver case. 

I have to disagree mate. I think the EU saw the British/Brexit narrative and then how Britain has tried to bully its way around and thought fine fuck you then. Brexit is going to cripple this country and the fault won't like at the EU's feet although the british press will have been told thats what they need to preach. 

[SasaS]

25 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I voted Remain in the referendum, I travel to Europe a lot with work, 95% of my work colleagues are French/Dutch/Germans and I was embarrassed by the anti europe sentiment in this country. However since the vote, the EU have behaved dreadfully so I now think we are better off out. It is clear that they are terrified that we will make a success of Brexit so are making life difficult for us. The petty friction re the forms at the border is all coming from the European side and the threat to invoke a hard border in NI to stop vaccine exports just shows they don't give a fuck about starting another decade of terrorism in this country.  I think Brexit was a big mistake but the EU have subsequently given a lot of evidence for the Leaver case. 

How did the EU behave dreadfully "since the vote"? This threat to invoke Article 16 (which BTW nobody outside the UK, Ireland and EC corridors gives a second thought) is just about the first blunder they made in 4 years.

[Bjornebye]

 

 

[Rico1304]

39 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I voted Remain in the referendum, I travel to Europe a lot with work, 95% of my work colleagues are French/Dutch/Germans and I was embarrassed by the anti europe sentiment in this country. However since the vote, the EU have behaved dreadfully so I now think we are better off out. It is clear that they are terrified that we will make a success of Brexit so are making life difficult for us. The petty friction re the forms at the border is all coming from the European side and the threat to invoke a hard border in NI to stop vaccine exports just shows they don't give a fuck about starting another decade of terrorism in this country.  I think Brexit was a big mistake but the EU have subsequently given a lot of evidence for the Leaver case. 

I don’t get this. All the stuff at the borders was entirely predictable, we are a third country now. You wouldn’t expect a warm welcome at your exes house after one of your divorces. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

That's not fanciful at all; but you do have a habit of laying too much blame at the door of the EU and giving national governments  (e.g. the Spanish government who attacked Catalan separatists and the French government who keep whaling the tar out of anti-government protesters) a more-or-less free pass.

Its rubbish. Look at the tory thread I've criticised our government as much as anyone whilst you have never rarely utter a single word of criticism towards the eu. Even over this debacle you give them a free pass.

 

You pretend to yourself there is nothing wrong in an unelected no mark from the eu to put a border through Ireland without telling it's people or elected governments. You're Brainwashed.