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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


Anny Road
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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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10 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:


The article tells the left to take a long hard look at its self and is, in part, to blame, and other self aggrandising fucking nonsense as always from that chimp. 

 

You ok with that, because I sure as shit ain’t?

 

More moral gymnastics to show ‘I had more foresight than you’ bollocks.

 

Maybe I paraphrased, but the central argument is still ‘you, remainers, fucked up and you’re to blame for this sorry fucking mess, but not me, I’m better than that and saw it all coming ‘cause I’m so fucking clever and lefty an’ tha’’

 

Anyway, I’m getting a coffee, enjoy the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read it as " we Remainers fucked up".  (The only self-aggrandising bit is where he shows that he thought Leave could win before the Referendum; he doesn't mention his opinions in the four and a half years since then.)

 

And, yeah, I'm OK with the idea that people on the left should reflect on and learn from our defeats.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The article doesn't say that; in fact, it says the opposite.   But it does say (with hindsight - and absolutely correctly) that Remainers and the Labour Party got a lot of stuff wrong over the last 4 years.  Hard to argue with that.

Did the Labour party get stuff wrong over the past four years though? Really? What were they supposed to do?

 

  The Corbyn/Starmer position on brexit was both coherent and workable. It wouldn't have pleased everyone but nothing would. I'd have been fairly confident of Starmer/Corbyn negotiating a deal that both the UK and EU could live with and wouldn't destroy the British economy.

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32 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I read it as " we Remainers fucked up".  (The only self-aggrandising bit is where he shows that he thought Leave could win before the Referendum; he doesn't mention his opinions in the four and a half years since then.)

 

And, yeah, I'm OK with the idea that people on the left should reflect on and learn from our defeats.


I read as ‘you’, you were to blame, you didn’t see it coming. You with your different factions and lack of foresight, you out of touch liberals/lefties. Pretty much anybody but Owen Jones who sits above as the virtuous sage of the left ready to pontificate on disaster or failure equally without saying anything of substance.
 

Depends if you like Jones or not, I suppose? I think he’s a prick who’s opinion of himself is far bigger than his intelligence.

 

Now coffee has been taken.


Scooby ‘they’ll end up blaming the left and the EU’ Bruce ‘Don’t worry Owen ‘fucking’ Jones has started the spade work for them’  That’s the train of thought.

 

We all know it’s going to be them nasty forrins who are to blame in the press and it’s as clear as a beautiful cloudless morning what the narrative will be and the last thing we need is these ‘introspection’ pieces from the self appointed voices of the left holding a dirty mirror up to ‘us’. 

 

We didn’t get it wrong, we were fighting on a different battlefield. They lied, cheated, cajoled and all other manner of deception and skullduggery, ‘we’ relied on the common sense of the British Public...

 

We have a lot to learn, I agree, but they cheated, you can’t argue that away in an introspective argument on the Grun blaming ‘us’ for not having the foresight to see that and Owen ‘fucking’ Jones just tried to.

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12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Did the Labour party get stuff wrong over the past four years though? Really? What were they supposed to do?

 

  The Corbyn/Starmer position on brexit was both coherent and workable. It wouldn't have pleased everyone but nothing would. I'd have been fairly confident of Starmer/Corbyn negotiating a deal that both the UK and EU could live with and wouldn't destroy the British economy.

I was confident that Corbyn and Starmer had the best approach.   I was wrong. 

 

We misread the mood in key marginals and allowed Labour’s approach to be seen as an anti-Brexit one; that was one of the most important  - possibly the most important  - factors in Labour’s defeat.

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I'm not Owen Jones biggest fan either but he is right that the anti-Brexit politicians in the main were not prepared to look at possiblec compromises in their stances to get Brexit off the table. Books will be written in the future about the period towards the end of the May ministry and early Johnson ministry when we seemed to be having important votes every night but the Lib Dems and Labour let Johnson wriggle out with an election.

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18 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I was confident that Corbyn and Starmer had the best approach.   I was wrong. 

 

We misread the mood in key marginals and allowed Labour’s approach to be seen as an anti-Brexit one; that was one of the most important  - possibly the most important  - factors in Labour’s defeat.

Yeah, I was also blinded by thinking the doing right thing was the right thing. Turns out that doing the right thing was the wrong thing. I did express at the time that ‘fence sitting’ might backfire, but I still maintained it was the most fair approach. That said, I’m not convinced any other approach would have lead to a significantly different result. The ‘get brexit done’ worked for the Tories in a way it couldn’t have for the Labour Party. 
 

Argh, this fucking sucks, man. It’s so pointless. We get nothing out of it. Cameron and Farage have absolutely fucked us there. 

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4 minutes ago, Numero said:

Yeah, I was also blinded by thinking the doing right thing was the right thing. Turns out that doing the right thing was the wrong thing. I did express at the time that ‘fence sitting’ might backfire, but I still maintained it was the most fair approach. That said, I’m not convinced any other approach would have lead to a significantly different result. The ‘get brexit done’ worked for the Tories in a way it couldn’t have for the Labour Party. 
 

Argh, this fucking sucks, man. It’s so pointless. We get nothing out of it. Cameron and Farage have absolutely fucked us there. 

I think I'm right in saying that you've expressed an opinion on other threads that Corbyn and his communications team were, y'know, not always the most effective.   I think the fact that "vote Tory to save Brexit" became a vote-winning message with a lot of working class people was the lowest of a lot of low points. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I think I'm right in saying that you've expressed an opinion on other threads that Corbyn and his communications team were, y'know, not always the most effective.   I think the fact that "vote Tory to save Brexit" became a vote-winning message with a lot of working class people was the lowest of a lot of low points. 

Yeah, they clearly weren't effective. That's not an anti-Corbyn point (outside of... pick better people), but they clearly didn't get a message through. That said, many people in the country are just getting on with their lives. They can't be doing with learning about politics and policy. These entire fucking thing shouldn't have been put to the public in this way. The whole thing is a bodge job to get Cameron elected. Even if Corbyn had a great communications team, I think the power of 'denying a democratic vote' was quite powerful. 

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7 minutes ago, Numero said:

Yeah, they clearly weren't effective. That's not an anti-Corbyn point (outside of... pick better people), but they clearly didn't get a message through. That said, many people in the country are just getting on with their lives. They can't be doing with learning about politics and policy. These entire fucking thing shouldn't have been put to the public in this way. The whole thing is a bodge job to get Cameron elected. Even if Corbyn had a great communications team, I think the power of 'denying a democratic vote' was quite powerful. 

Didn't Corbyn come out and say straight after the ref, that the vote would be respected and then that's when the Remainers in the party started to turn against him even more? 

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Even with No Deal these negotiations will carry on ad infinitum. It'll still be in the news every day as the situation gets worse at the ports, on the motorways and in shops. I'm all for it now, there's nowhere to hide when on your watch Covid is rampant, you can't get fresh food on the shelves for people and energy costs sky rocket because you're no longer self sufficient. Honda have already paused production in Swindon, other factories aren't far behind I'd say.

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Remainers have pushed back and pushed back to make the Brexit transition as difficult as possible which of course is going to have an even more detrimental effect on a Brexit Britain future. Its like someone washing your car with petrol and in protest you throw a match at it to prove that petrol isn't the right thing to use. I think (I still to this day struggle to believe its happening) ardent remainders in Westminster didn't truly see a Britain out of the EU and could see just how bad it was going to be when all of the nuances unfolded (hard border etc) and probably thought it would get scrapped or at the very least we would see a second referendum. The EU knows its got Britain by the balls and its going to end up a No-Deal and fuck us all right up. 

 

Is the post-apocalyptic future of Britain the fault of remainers though? Is it fuck. Its Jim from Barnsley who has been a life-long Labour voter but voted Leave and then Tory just to "get these bloody immigrants out of our country". 

 

If you held a second referendum tomorrow it would easily be a 70/30 swing to remain. Easily 

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I was confident that Corbyn and Starmer had the best approach.   I was wrong. 

 

We misread the mood in key marginals and allowed Labour’s approach to be seen as an anti-Brexit one; that was one of the most important  - possibly the most important  - factors in Labour’s defeat.

In fairness it was a hard balancing act which wasnt helped by certain factions in the Labour party trying to railroad the then leader in one way or the other. Plus Corbyn had the lib dems making it plain they would not work with Labour but would keep an open door with the Tories. 

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28 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Remainers have pushed back and pushed back to make the Brexit transition as difficult as possible which of course is going to have an even more detrimental effect on a Brexit Britain future. Its like someone washing your car with petrol and in protest you throw a match at it to prove that petrol isn't the right thing to use. I think (I still to this day struggle to believe its happening) ardent remainders in Westminster didn't truly see a Britain out of the EU and could see just how bad it was going to be when all of the nuances unfolded (hard border etc) and probably thought it would get scrapped or at the very least we would see a second referendum. The EU knows its got Britain by the balls and its going to end up a No-Deal and fuck us all right up. 

 

Is the post-apocalyptic future of Britain the fault of remainers though? Is it fuck. Its Jim from Barnsley who has been a life-long Labour voter but voted Leave and then Tory just to "get these bloody immigrants out of our country". 

 

If you held a second referendum tomorrow it would easily be a 70/30 swing to remain. Easily 

Poll from June of this year..

 

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

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1 hour ago, skend04 said:

Silly cow. Should have maybe realised this before she started with this Lexit shite. Numerous Labour MPs and members  just as culpable as the Far Right for the job losses and food shortages coming up.

Screenshot_20201210_214428_com.whatsapp.jpg

The cunt was born in Germany as well, so I bet she has her passport application ready. 
 

The little people will pay the price of brexit and some stupid cunts will claim that this is what they wanted all along. Same stupid cunt will vote these shysters back in again ( yes I know she was Labour ) but a cunt is a cunt no matter what colour rosette they wear 

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15 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Didn't Corbyn come out and say straight after the ref, that the vote would be respected and then that's when the Remainers in the party started to turn against him even more? 

 

Yes he did. Brexit has fucked the Labour Party beyond belief. 

 

The problem was that the Labour membership were about 75% remain, so always wanted that to be an option. 

 

As soon as May got the DUP on board after the 2017 election, it was always going to be a lose lose situation for Labour. I can't see any path after that election that could have worked out any better for them?

 

 

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31 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

This is another issue. The perception of the Labour party is now that its a party of students and hippies, and people like Owen Jones, do more damage than good.  

It's a problem for a lot of political parties / politics in general.  The only people really interested in joining political parties are the people who are passionately on one side or the other.

For the right, these are increasingly racist, sexist and/or extremely religious nutters.  They don't really have anything in common with the old members or traditional voters of well off doctors, lawyers, etc.

 

On the left, because the Unions have been gradually wasted away (partly due to deliberate activity by conservative governments, partly due to the fact of automation in the workplace and that the industrial revolution was 200 years ago, and there are very few huge employers any more), there aren't the same membership interests in the old blue collar core issues of employment, education, etc.  The members are vocal about personal liberty issues, foreign affairs, etc. and so these dominate the discourse.

 

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