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Should the UK remain a member of the EU


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317 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      259
    • No
      58


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6 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Is anybody genuinely surprised by this? When May was in charge and getting those thumping defeats, it looked pretty obvious that we were heading for no deal. As soon as Johnson won a massive majority, it was inevitable. 

 

I had a quick scan through some Brexity pages and they are overjoyed by this. This is exactly what most of them wanted.  

I still don't get why- disaster capitalist cunts like Rees-Mogg sure, but for the average person there is just no upside whatsoever. 

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1 minute ago, Mudface said:

I still don't get why- disaster capitalist cunts like Rees-Mogg sure, but for the average person there is just no upside whatsoever. 

They were sold a utopian vision of the UK returning to its 19th century glory. Utopian partly because it has 0% chance of happening, and also because life was actually fucking appalling for the vast majority of British people anyway. 

 

However, it worked, and now we're left with people saying "get over it" "remainer tears" "we won" etc, as they treat politics and economics like a Paddy Power version of supporting a football team. 

 

They were told that "we've had enough of experts" so for every article, bit of research, or simply pointing out the reality of global economics, they simply double down on their utter stupidity.

 

Cunt media, cunt politicians, and cunt rich people (like that gigantic bellend Tim Martin) whipping up cunt population into a frenzy of spellbinding cuntery.

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27 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

It has been obvious since before the referendum result that these bastards wanted no deal. They are so brave and trust the great British people that they continually fed them lies.

 

It seems a lot of project fear was in fact project fact. Shocked I am 

I think it was an Andrew Rawnsley piece in yesterday's Observer, the noise coming from Whitehall is that Gove and Sunak are both rowing back on the No Deal nonsense. They've seen what is involved and how much money they'll need just to stand still. The figures from the Treasury sent to Boris for the funding required to offset a no deal are apparently eye-watering. 

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13 minutes ago, skend04 said:

I think it was an Andrew Rawnsley piece in yesterday's Observer, the noise coming from Whitehall is that Gove and Sunak are both rowing back on the No Deal nonsense. They've seen what is involved and how much money they'll need just to stand still. The figures from the Treasury sent to Boris for the funding required to offset a no deal are apparently eye-watering. 

They can't have just found this out? Everyone has known this is the case from the start. It's why even gove himself during the referendum campaign continually claimed no deal was no option and we had to have a free trade agreement. 

 

The problem here i think? For the majority of the Tory party, no deal has just been a bluff (I don't mean the ERG nuts). They've always thought that was part of a negotiating position and they've genuinely thought the EU needs us as much as we need them. They've made the biggest mistake you can ever make in any negotiation and that it underestimate the hand your opponent has. They have been absolutely certain from day 1 they'd get their "Canada style" agreement, because they thought we represent something to Europe more important than Canada. They haven't realised that doesn't mean they will do anything to get a deal and even if we are more important than Canada to the EU, that as a negotiation means nothing, because the reverse to that is true and more. 

 

Bottom line here -.many Tories also think the EU bottle it at the last minute despite there being no evidence of that, so for the next month we'll achieve nothing. Here's my prediction, as it becomes clear the EU won't deal, we'll either back down to make a deal and try to spin it as the EU backed down or at the final hurdle they'll do an extension to the transition and blame it on covid to give themselves another year. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 at the final hurdle they'll do an extension to the transition and blame it on covid to give themselves another year. 

 

The problem is they have delayed it so long it would be political suicide to delay it again.

 

If they extend it again, Johnson will slump in the polls and the tories will force him out.  

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8 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

The problem is they have delayed it so long it would be political suicide to delay it again.

 

If they extend it again, Johnson will slump in the polls and the tories will force him out.  

i don't know about that, especially if Sunak and Gove are on board. The virus gives them the easiest get out of jail ever. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

i don't know about that, especially if Sunak and Gove are on board. The virus gives them the easiest get out of jail ever. 

That would be the rational choice even if you were a Brexit supporter. Trying to enforce a WTO trading relationship in a matter of weeks with the country and businesses wrestling with the devastating consequences of a pandemic is sheer lunacy. I'm pretty sure Sunak and Gove realise this now, they're well aware of the impact to our supply chains, whether Johnson does and is blindly following Cummings, is another matter.

 

I still expect Johnson to cave in, to give ground as he did with the withdrawal agreement prior to subsequently declaring a victory. All this posturing, threatening to walk away without actually walking away is really just gesture politics allowing Johnson to claim he gave the EU a thorough going over.

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9 minutes ago, clangers said:

That would be the rational choice even if you were a Brexit supporter. Trying to enforce a WTO trading relationship in a matter of weeks with the country and businesses wrestling with the devastating consequences of a pandemic is sheer lunacy. I'm pretty sure Sunak and Gove realise this now, they're well aware of the impact to our supply chains, whether Johnson does and is blindly following Cummings, is another matter.

 

I still expect Johnson to cave in, to give ground as he did with the withdrawal agreement prior to subsequently declaring a victory. All this posturing, threatening to walk away without actually walking away is really just gesture politics allowing Johnson to claim he gave the EU a thorough going over.

I don't know if you saw Marr yesterday. When he was talking to Gove about no deal, Gove was giving the Johnson bluster about "Australian style deal", which is obviously no deal. Marr just coolly says "why are you calling it that? That is just WTO rules, you might as well call it the mongolian or afghanistan style deal". There was a look on Gove's face at that point where he just looks as if to say "don't i fucking know it". It was one of the first cracks I have seen (perhaps I am reading too much into it), but i think they know they're fucked. They know the world is fucked because of covid. They know their best mate in washington could be about to get hoofed. I just don't see them fucking themselves, unless of course there's another way to handle it like they have the pandemic to make their mates richer, which I am just not seeing right now. 

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3 hours ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

The problem is they have delayed it so long it would be political suicide to delay it again.

 

If they extend it again, Johnson will slump in the polls and the tories will force him out.  

This says all you need to know about Tories.  Needlessly tanking the economy is their preferred option, provided you wave a flag while you do it.

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4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

i don't know about that, especially if Sunak and Gove are on board. The virus gives them the easiest get out of jail ever. 

If The referendum was last year, or if Cameron, May and Johnson hadn't already delayed it then yes, but if they delay it again Brexiteers will just see it as another excuse. They don't give a shit about the consequences. 

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50 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The EU should not budge because if they relent just an inch the tories will paint it as some giant win, sign off on any dog shit terms as long as it looks like they got what they wanted and the EU are giant mugs.

We seen a bit of this tonight. The EU agreed to negotiate intensively and include text, that is some serious climb down from the Europeans. 1 nil to the British.

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On 16/10/2020 at 19:28, Jairzinho said:

They were sold a utopian vision of the UK returning to its 19th century glory. Utopian partly because it has 0% chance of happening, and also because life was actually fucking appalling for the vast majority of British people anyway. 

 

However, it worked, and now we're left with people saying "get over it" "remainer tears" "we won" etc, as they treat politics and economics like a Paddy Power version of supporting a football team. 

 

They were told that "we've had enough of experts" so for every article, bit of research, or simply pointing out the reality of global economics, they simply double down on their utter stupidity.

 

Cunt media, cunt politicians, and cunt rich people (like that gigantic bellend Tim Martin) whipping up cunt population into a frenzy of spellbinding cuntery.

 

Economics like Paddy Power you say, meanwhile in your fantasy utopia...

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/30e0ca92-1bbf-445b-8ec2-427a2c08ec66

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34 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Economics like Paddy Power you say, meanwhile in your fantasy utopia...

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/30e0ca92-1bbf-445b-8ec2-427a2c08ec66

What "fantasy utopia"?

 

Even if I (or you?) had paid to read more than the headline of that FT article, I'm guessing the gist of it is "the EU is flawed and imperfect" - which it is; literally nobody here has ever argued otherwise.

 

Is there anything in Jairz's post - y'know, the stuff he actually wrote - that you disagree with?

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Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

What "fantasy utopia"?

 

Even if I (or you?) had paid to read more than the headline of that FT article, I'm guessing the gist of it is "the EU is flawed and imperfect" - which it is; literally nobody here has ever argued otherwise.

 

Is there anything in Jairz's post - y'know, the stuff he actually wrote - that you disagree with?

Sorry I thought the article would come up as I had it as a one off freebie. The basic jist is the eu reverting to the tried, tested and failed policy of economic prudence which helped cause a decade of austerity and threw approx a quarter of it's under 25s on the dole queue, you call the policy "imperfect" I have a few stronger names. 

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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Sorry I thought the article would come up as I had it as a one off freebie. The basic jist is the eu reverting to the tried, tested and failed policy of economic prudence which helped cause a decade of austerity and threw approx a quarter of it's under 25s on the dole queue, you call the policy "imperfect" I have a few stronger names. 

Literally nobody here defends neoliberalism and austerity.

 

What were you talking about when you mentioned Jairz's "fantasy utopia"?

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