Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

8 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Correct.

 

I'd argue that on all three, international action is required  (and that the EU provides a framework for international action).

 

On all three I'd mark the EU as "Could do better" and the UK as "Couldn’t be arsed trying to do better".

Out of interest did you sign it ?

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Those demands are hilarious, so I also signed.

I disagree,  I find the demands just and sobering.

 

Unfortunately the reaction our leaders have taken on tackling climate change is nothing to crack open the laughing gas about.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Out of interest did you sign it ?

Yes.

 

Nobody said the EU was perfect.  I've done a lot of campaigning against the worst aspects of the EU in my time. 

[Gnasher]

Interesting survey, surprise surprise free movement of people (or free movement of cheap labour) seems to still be the main concern regarding brexit. Encouraging that an outside worker from Pakistan is seen roughly as the same as one from Poland or Australia so its possible the racial card has been overplayed.

 

Good to see Doctors are more highly thought of than most professions at 80%, Bankers are 18%.

 

The survey shows approx half the country are blind to fact Britain is about to take a financial hit on leaving the eu. 

 

So in summary it seems to be cheap labour that fuels the ire of the anti eu tub thumpers. In my opinion they've got a valid point, one of the disturbing images of the pandemic was seeing poor people huddled in planes to be flown across the world to pick fruit and veg for rich British landowners. The scare stories to add some justification of the country running out of food proved to be unfounded, no one missed their helping of asparagus.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/07/two-thirds-of-british-voters-think-eu-nationals-should-not-have-free-movement

[skend04]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Interesting survey, surprise surprise free movement of people (or free movement of cheap labour) seems to still be the main concern regarding brexit. Encouraging that an outside worker from Pakistan is seen roughly as the same as one from Poland or Australia so its possible the racial card has been overplayed.

 

Good to see Doctors are more highly thought of than most professions at 80%, Bankers are 18%.

 

The survey shows approx half the country are blind to fact Britain is about to take a financial hit on leaving the eu. 

 

So in summary it seems to be cheap labour that fuels the ire of the anti eu tub thumpers. In my opinion they've got a valid point, one of the disturbing images of the pandemic was seeing poor people huddled in planes to be flown across the world to pick fruit and veg for rich British landowners. The scare stories to add some justification of the country running out of food proved to be unfounded, no one missed their helping of asparagus.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/07/two-thirds-of-british-voters-think-eu-nationals-should-not-have-free-movement

That's because loads of people voted so they could get the Muslims out. Those Barnsley voters think every brown guy is from the EU, the thick bastards.

[Chairman Meow]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Encouraging that an outside worker from Pakistan is seen roughly as the same as one from Poland or Australia so its possible the racial card has been overplayed.

They don't just hate European foreigners they also hate Pakistani foreigners so that proves people can't be racist as they just hate everyone who isn't British?

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Chairman Meow said:

They don't just hate European foreigners they also hate Pakistani foreigners so that proves people can't be racist as they just hate everyone who isn't British?

Not really what the report implies though, it's easy to accuse people of stereotyping  when using lazy stereotypes yourself. The report would suggest a Pakistani doctor is more well thought of than an Australian banker, sorry if that goes against the narrative but their you go..

[Rico1304]

38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Not really what the report implies though, it's easy to accuse people of stereotyping  when using lazy stereotypes yourself. The report would suggest a Pakistani doctor is more well thought of than an Australian banker, sorry if that goes against the narrative but their you go..

I suppose you could look at the data on hate crimes and see how many have been perpetrated against Australians v Pakistanis. 

[Mudface]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I suppose you could look at the data on hate crimes and see how many have been perpetrated against Australians v Pakistanis. 

We really are slacking when it comes to Aussies, I can't believe what this country's become.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I suppose you could look at the data on hate crimes and see how many have been perpetrated against Australians v Pakistanis. 

I might go looking to kick in a few Aussies to even it up a bit.

[Bjornebye]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Interesting survey, surprise surprise free movement of people (or free movement of cheap labour) seems to still be the main concern regarding brexit. Encouraging that an outside worker from Pakistan is seen roughly as the same as one from Poland or Australia so its possible the racial card has been overplayed.

 

Good to see Doctors are more highly thought of than most professions at 80%, Bankers are 18%.

 

The survey shows approx half the country are blind to fact Britain is about to take a financial hit on leaving the eu. 

 

So in summary it seems to be cheap labour that fuels the ire of the anti eu tub thumpers. In my opinion they've got a valid point, one of the disturbing images of the pandemic was seeing poor people huddled in planes to be flown across the world to pick fruit and veg for rich British landowners. The scare stories to add some justification of the country running out of food proved to be unfounded, no one missed their helping of asparagus.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/07/two-thirds-of-british-voters-think-eu-nationals-should-not-have-free-movement

They should have had a basic IQ test before letting anyone vote on Brexit. I fucking despair of some people in this country. 

[Denny Crane]

Anyone gonna tell these useful idiots that the majority of all the remainer politicians who vowed to fight like the Japanese soldier who fought on for 29 years,  were just playing politics to stop a socialist government. The "Keir is acting as a Brexit social woker made me laugh"

 

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Interesting survey, surprise surprise free movement of people (or free movement of cheap labour) seems to still be the main concern regarding brexit. Encouraging that an outside worker from Pakistan is seen roughly as the same as one from Poland or Australia so its possible the racial card has been overplayed.

 

Good to see Doctors are more highly thought of than most professions at 80%, Bankers are 18%.

 

The survey shows approx half the country are blind to fact Britain is about to take a financial hit on leaving the eu. 

 

So in summary it seems to be cheap labour that fuels the ire of the anti eu tub thumpers. In my opinion they've got a valid point, one of the disturbing images of the pandemic was seeing poor people huddled in planes to be flown across the world to pick fruit and veg for rich British landowners. The scare stories to add some justification of the country running out of food proved to be unfounded, no one missed their helping of asparagus.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/07/two-thirds-of-british-voters-think-eu-nationals-should-not-have-free-movement

It would be interesting to see what these people are basing their opinions on.  I  can't help thinking that the handful of billionaire tax dodgers who have spent decades screaming "swarms of immigrants are threatening your jobs/benefits/pay/public services/family/traditions, etc" do so for a reason. Propaganda works.

 

We're all suffering from grotesque inequality.  Who should we blame; the rich and powerful who cause the situation or the poor and powerless who get an even shittier end of the stick than we do?

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

Anyone gonna tell these useful idiots that the majority of all the remainer politicians who vowed to fight like the Japanese soldier who fought on for 29 years,  were just playing politics to stop a socialist government. The "Keir is acting as a Brexit social woker made me laugh"

 

 

 

 

What the fuck? 

[Gnasher]

24 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It would be interesting to see what these people are basing their opinions on.  I  can't help thinking that the handful of billionaire tax dodgers who have spent decades screaming "swarms of immigrants are threatening your jobs/benefits/pay/public services/family/traditions, etc" do so for a reason. Propaganda works.

 

We're all suffering from grotesque inequality.  Who should we blame; the rich and powerful who cause the situation or the poor and powerless who get an even shittier end of the stick than we do?

Or maybe the landowners who charter planes to fly in cheap labour to work on our farms or the gangmasters who use cheap east European labour to toil in inner city sweatshops?  The easy movement of cheap labour aided and assisted in providing easy access to a large labour pool. 

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Or maybe the landowners who charter planes to fly in cheap labour to work on our farms or the gangmasters who use cheap east European labour to toil in inner city sweatshops?  The easy movement of cheap labour aided and assisted in providing easy access to a large labour pool. 

Since when were Pakistan, Bangladesh and African countries members of the EU?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2020/08/after-this-crisis-leicester-must-no-longer-be-known-as-the-sweatshop-of-europe/%3Famp

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Since when were Pakistan, Bangladesh and African countries members of the EU?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2020/08/after-this-crisis-leicester-must-no-longer-be-known-as-the-sweatshop-of-europe/%3Famp

I didn't say they were, you pinpoint another example of authorities turning a blind eye to modern day slavery, also vietnamese slavery is rife in the uk.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The surest way to combat modern slavery is to give workers - domestic and immigrant alike - more rights.

 

Brexit removes rights from workers.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The surest way to combat modern slavery is to give workers - domestic and immigrant alike - more rights.

 

Brexit removes rights from workers.

You say workers but in today's real world the term worker could and does mean anything. A person on a full contract with pension etc is a million miles away from a modern day slave working on a building site for payment below the minimum wage. 

 

EU immigration has always been a class issue, ie the better off gain the poorest lose, that's in the official reports which I've published numerous times. For example approx half a million Polish workers came to Brìtain in a ten year period, thr figures show less than a thousand went to Poland. Whilst immigration improves the economy as a whole and the wealthy in particular it's the working class and poor that suffer due to the suppression of wages and working conditions.

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You say workers but in today's real world the term worker could and does mean anything. A person on a full contract with pension etc is a million miles away from a modern day slave working on a building site for payment below the minimum wage. 

 

EU immigration has always been a class issue, ie the better off gain the poorest lose, that's in the official reports which I've published numerous times. For example approx half a million Polish workers came to Brìtain in a ten year period, thr figures show less than a thousand went to Poland. Whilst immigration improves the economy as a whole and the wealthy in particular it's the working class and poor that suffer due to the suppression of wages and working conditions.

 

A couple of years old but a fair summary

 

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/labour-should-not-be-the-champion-of-eu-free-movement/

[Bjornebye]

Gnasher - Genuine question, do you still think Brexit is a good idea? 

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Gnasher - Genuine question, do you still think Brexit is a good idea? 

No but I can fully understand the reasons a lot of the poor/working class voted leave and I sympathise and agree with their concerns. They were the forgotten bloc for far too long, they sacrificed the benefits of free movement so others could make cheap money. It's not the builders from Barnsley or Scaffolders from Scunthorpe who have fucked up this country, most have never voted in a tory mp in three generations; they do not deserve scorn.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

59 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You say workers but in today's real world the term worker could and does mean anything. A person on a full contract with pension etc is a million miles away from a modern day slave working on a building site for payment below the minimum wage. 

So, give them equal rights and close the gap.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

You say workers but in today's real world the term worker could and does mean anything. A person on a full contract with pension etc is a million miles away from a modern day slave working on a building site for payment below the minimum wage. 

 

EU immigration has always been a class issue, ie the better off gain the poorest lose, that's in the official reports which I've published numerous times. For example approx half a million Polish workers came to Brìtain in a ten year period, thr figures show less than a thousand went to Poland. Whilst immigration improves the economy as a whole and the wealthy in particular it's the working class and poor that suffer due to the suppression of wages and working conditions.

As I've pointed out every time you post that link, domestic workers only get undercut by migrant workers because the migrants have fewer rights.  (That is the choice of the UK Government, not the EU. ) Level the rights up and the problem disappears. Strip migrants of the right to work and they don’t vanish, they just end up in genuine conditions of slavery. 

 

We're getting back to the question you never answer: how do you propose to improve workers' rights by taking rights away from workers?

[Denny Crane]

There was a lot of talk on here about this in the past. No evidence found.