Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Yes you are. It’s not an EU thread, it’s a “UK leaving the EU” thread. You can pretend that what you’re doing is giving a bit of ‘balance’ to this discussion, but really what you’re doing right now is absolving any blame from the government, and pinning it on the EU solely because of a single statement Juncker made right after reaching an agreement for deal.

 

 “We have concluded a deal and so there is not an argument for further delay - it has to be done now.”

There has been a lot more than "A single statement" in regards of Europe trying to stringarm British mps making a decision on Brexit.

 

 

[aRdja]

27 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

There has been a lot more than "A single statement" in regards of Europe trying to stringarm British mps making a decision on Brexit.

Don’t be silly. Only a Tory apologist would seriously make the claim that it’s the EU trying to force the MPs into making a decision, not the UK government. 

[cloggypop]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I agree. Hopefully the day ithe western greed culture crumbles will come sooner rather than later.

 

Empires crumble all the time... 

 

 

Arse. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Gnasher's 4 sandwiches, 2 Pork pies, 4 sausage rolls and a bottle of wine short of a picnic. 

[M_B]

40 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Don’t be silly. Only a Tory apologist would seriously make the claim that it’s the EU trying to force the MPs into making a decision, not the UK government. 

 

28 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

Gnasher's 4 sandwiches, 2 Pork pies, 4 sausage rolls and a bottle of wine short of a picnic. 

 

Gnasher can go off one one with his anti-EU trolling, but on this occassion he has a point. EU leaders, not just Juncker, are colluding with Johnson to sell the deal to the British public by giving the impression that an extension is not in the offing whereas in reality it obviously is.

 

That's not being a Tory apologist, it's demonstrably true.

 

For example

 

Macron

 

Also it seems they are very deliberately not providing an answer to the extension request until after the vote. They and Johnson want the threat of a no deal to be in the minds of MP's.

 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

13 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

 

Gnasher can go off one one with his anti-EU trolling, but on this occassion he has a point. EU leaders, not just Juncker, are colluding with Johnson to sell the deal to the British public by giving the impression that an extension is not in the offing whereas in reality it obviously is.

 

That's not being a Tory apologist, it's demonstrably true.

 

For example

 

Macron

 

Also it seems they are very deliberately not providing an answer to the extension request until after the vote on Monday. They and Johnson want the threat of a no deal to be in the minds of MP's.

 

 

Don't you think its a case of the EU being pissed off with the utter incompetence of the UK Gov't and the fannying about for over three years? Of course, the EU would like a deal, they are looking after their members after all, why the fuck should they just roll over for the Uk who have fucked them about from the off. Started off with arrogance and self entitlement then carried on in a Xenophobic frenzy of ultimatums and threats from certain quarters. How do you think the UK would have acted if the roles were reversed? 

 

You wait for the shit England will pull should any of the other home nations decide on independence. 

[M_B]

Oh I dont disagree. I'm just pointing out what they are doing, and that Gnasher was in fact correct on this occassion.

[Mudface]

I get the impression that the EU were happy to extend to make sure all their members and the institution itself were prepared for Brexit. Now that they've got themselves a very good deal and they're all presumably sorted, they're much less likely to acquiesce easily.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

4 minutes ago, M_B said:

Oh I dont disagree. I'm just pointing out what they are doing, and that Gnasher was in fact correct on this occassion.

 

Now and again, amidst his anal waffling he makes a valid point, but it is the UK who are leaving the Union and they have approached things far worse than their counterparts. 

1 minute ago, Mudface said:

I get the impression that the EU were happy to extend to make sure all their members and the institution itself were prepared for Brexit. Now that they've got themselves a very good deal and they're all presumably sorted, they're much less likely to acquiesce easily.

Plus why should they, the UK only have themselves to blame for how things have gone so far. A 'No Deal' scenario has only ever been used as some sort of bargaining tool, anybody worth their salt within parliament knows it would be a disaster, well apart from those cunts who invested in it. The UK wasted years of actual planning by approaching things unprepared and in that time the EU have worked on various plans for different situations and just got on with their own things. 

[Mudface]

2 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

Now and again, amidst his anal waffling he makes a valid point, but it is the UK who are leaving the Union and they have approached things far worse than their counterparts. 

Plus why should they, the UK only have themselves to blame for how things have gone so far. A 'No Deal' scenario has only ever been used as some sort of bargaining tool, anybody worth their salt within parliament knows it would be a disaster, well apart from those cunts who invested in it. The UK wasted years of actual planning by approaching things unprepared and in that time the EU have worked on various plans for different situations and just got on with their own things. 

Which goes back fairly and squarely to the way the Tories have approached it. The ridiculous hyperbolic language used, the cloak and dagger secrecy, repeatedly trying to ram it through without proper Parliamentary scrutiny etc etc. If they'd co-opted the various parties and built a consensus, then the ERG headbangers would have been completely sidelined and we could have had an orderly Brexit, with compromises on all sides, without all this ridiculous chaos and brinkmanship.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Just now, Mudface said:

Which goes back fairly and squarely to the way the Tories have approached it. The ridiculous hyperbolic language used, the cloak and dagger secrecy, repeatedly trying to ram it through without proper Parliamentary scrutiny etc etc. If they'd co-opted the various parties and built a consensus, then the ERG headbangers would have been completely sidelined and we could have had an orderly Brexit, with compromises on all sides, without all this ridiculous chaos and brinkmanship.

 

Pretty much. How the fuck they are still in charge of things is beyond me. Just shows how many retards we have in society these days. 

[sir roger]

19 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

Don't you think its a case of the EU being pissed off with the utter incompetence of the UK Gov't and the fannying about for over three years? Of course, the EU would like a deal, they are looking after their members after all, why the fuck should they just roll over for the Uk who have fucked them about from the off. Started off with arrogance and self entitlement then carried on in a Xenophobic frenzy of ultimatums and threats from certain quarters. How do you think the UK would have acted if the roles were reversed? 

 

You wait for the shit England will pull should any of the other home nations decide on independence. 

I think this is nearer the mark , they are pissed off with their whole energy being sapped by this shit for 3 years and in what alternative universe would you expect an organisation in their position not try to get the best deal for themselves.

 

The bottom line is that they have known their position , been on top of their brief , kept their discipline & have ended up taking our pants down and us paying £33bn for the privilege. Our Tory negotiators 'efforts' have been three years of unremitting embarrassment to this nation.

[Gnasher]

35 minutes ago, M_B said:

 

 

Gnasher can go off one one with his anti-EU trolling, but on this occassion he has a point. EU leaders, not just Juncker, are colluding with Johnson to sell the deal to the British public by giving the impression that an extension is not in the offing whereas in reality it obviously is.

 

That's not being a Tory apologist, it's demonstrably true.

 

For example

 

Macron

 

Also it seems they are very deliberately not providing an answer to the extension request until after the vote. They and Johnson want the threat of a no deal to be in the minds of MP's.

 

Thanks. You put it better than me.

 

I thought the past week made it obvious the EU was colluding with a Tory government to sell the deal.

 

 

[Gnasher]

27 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

Don't you think its a case of the EU being pissed off with the utter incompetence of the UK Gov't and the fannying about for over three years? Of course, the EU would like a deal, they are looking after their members after all, why the fuck should they just roll over for the Uk who have fucked them about from the off. Started off with arrogance and self entitlement then carried on in a Xenophobic frenzy of ultimatums and threats from certain quarters. How do you think the UK would have acted if the roles were reversed? 

 

You wait for the shit England will pull should any of the other home nations decide on independence. 

Two wrongs don't make a right pistol.

[sir roger]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Thanks. You put it better than me.

 

I thought the past week made it obvious the EU was colluding with a Tory government to sell the deal.

 

 

They have got the best end of the deal and don't want a No-Deal so why would they not want it passed ? I think they originally were desperate to keep us in the fold but after all of the shenanigans I don't think they are that bothered now.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

3 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I think this is nearer the mark , they are pissed off with their whole energy being sapped by this shit for 3 years and in what alternative universe would you expect an organisation in their position not try to get the best deal for themselves.

 

The bottom line is that they have known their position , been on top of their brief , kept their discipline & have ended up taking our pants down and us paying £33bn for the privilege. Our Tory negotiators 'efforts' have been three years of unremitting embarrassment to this nation.

 

Indeed. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the UK leaving with a deal is better for the EU, a scenario of a No Deal would be catastrophic for the UK and not great for the EU or the continent in general. The pain would be easier for a Union of 27 to share though, plus the EU have a way better structure and massive deals already in place. If the Eu didn't need a deal to prevent a bit of pain, the UK would have been fucked off at the first opportunity. It will be interesting to see how things pan out after any deals are made and sorted out during the transition period. It'll be a further year of the same old shite imo, followed by extension to that transition period. 

[Bjornebye]

2 hours ago, Trumo said:

More than 3 years on, and nobody has managed to come up with a genuine reason why leaving the EU is a good idea. Instead, the mantra of "the will of the people" keeps being repeated, and I'm guessing that is a deliberate ploy to evade scrutiny. Any attempt to question the detail gets shouted down, and what titbits do actually get out into the open are wishy-washy and again tied to repeated mantras.

 

I'm not going to sit here and claim the EU model is perfect (it's not, as there are many conflicting interests and the EU is a byword for bureaucracy much of the time), but there is a system of checks and balances that ensures that things like workers' right aren't being trampled over, and a means by which the collective entity's strength can benefit growth in the individual member states.

 

In the UK, we've already got a Tory government (in its current iteration especially) as well as MPs from the other parties who have tried to cast parliament aside, manipulated the monarchy's role and attempted to dismiss the Supreme Court. Unless they plan on removing all these aspects and change the way the elective, legislative and judiciary processes are involved in running the country if/when this Brexit shitshow actually happens, they are going to need them to get anything done moving forward.

becoz the imigrintz talking all ar jobs

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, sir roger said:

They have got the best end of the deal and don't want a No-Deal so why would they not want it passed ? I think they originally were desperate to keep us in the fold but after all of the shenanigans I don't think they are that bothered now.

I think you're pretty much on the button there. 

 

What does this EU message say to the  48%  or more who want to stay in thw eu and those marching in London yesterday? The answer I suspect is  similar to the message they gave to the youth of Greece, which was go fuck yourself.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I think you're pretty much on the button there. 

 

What does this EU message say to the  48%  or more who want to stay in thw eu and those marching in London yesterday? The answer I suspect is  similar to the message they gave to the youth of Greece, which was go fuck yourself.

 

Jesus Christ. The UK are leaving, it was their choice. Yet you keep on expecting the EU to capitulate and give them a great deal. It has nothing to do with percentages or who would rather stay in the Union. Either the whole country goes its own way or it stays in the Union. It isn't rocket science. 

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I think you're pretty much on the button there. 

 

What does this EU message say to the  48%  or more who want to stay in thw eu and those marching in London yesterday? The answer I suspect is  similar to the message they gave to the youth of Greece, which was go fuck yourself.

Because Greece offers as much to the EU as Britain 

[sir roger]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I think you're pretty much on the button there. 

 

What does this EU message say to the  48%  or more who want to stay in thw eu and those marching in London yesterday? The answer I suspect is  similar to the message they gave to the youth of Greece, which was go fuck yourself.

As part of the 48% I agree that the EU shouldn't get involved with our politics but I suppose they would say they have made a deal with the elected UK government on the back of a referendum won by the 52% so would obviously back it becoming law.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, sir roger said:

As part of the 48% I agree that the EU shouldn't get involved with our politics but I suppose they would say they have made a deal with the elected UK government on the back of a referendum won by the 52% so would obviously back it becoming law.

Yes I agree and as for the 48% who wanted to stick with them? It's erm sorry but erm er ....go fuck yourself.

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, mattyq said:

Looks like the fat cunt Johnson has the votes for his cunt Bill to pass.

Hopefully, we can amend the fuck out of it to get a new Referendum and remove the most damaging aspects of it

He's made some dangerous enemies in the DUP.. there'll be violence in Norn Iron if we're not very careful 

I don't think there's the numbers for another referendum. Even the Tories who support a referendum will not want to risk anything that doesn't mean this is a dead subject when we have a GE. 

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

Jesus Christ. The UK are leaving, it was their choice. Yet you keep on expecting the EU to capitulate and give them a great deal. It has nothing to do with percentages or who would rather stay in the Union. Either the whole country goes its own way or it stays in the Union. It isn't rocket science. 

The EU could have offered a long extension till maybe after the next election. They chose to threaten our elected mps with a quick no deal Brexit. Sorry but that's the reality.

 

In doing so they have sold the million who marched in London down the river whilst propping up a Tory government. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

The EU could have offered a long extension till maybe after the next election. They chose to threaten our elected mps with a quick no deal Brexit. Sorry but that's the reality.

 

In doing so they have sold the million who marched in London down the river whilst propping up a Tory government. 

Behave, they have been more than generous with the extensions, extensions that the Uk asked for and agreed upon.

 

Saying the EU have sold those who marched in London down the river just shows what an utter moron you are. 

 

I'm wasting my time, so best just to ignore your ramblings in future.