Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Davelfc]

6 hours ago, M_B said:

Interesting move by Boris to threaten to remove the Tory whip from rebellers when he has a majority of 1.

The latest poll figures have them very strong, so I'd imagine the idea is that if they vote against him they are deselected. Then in a GE the tories clean up and Labour are decimated. They're claiming a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Going to be an interesting week.

[Section_31]

7 hours ago, Boss said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting May and Major wouldn't sell Britain out from under them? They have and will. May was quite happy to sell Britain into vassal state slavery for her own career and John Major presided over an equally aggressive privatisation policy as Thatcher. What you're really saying is May and Major had honour because they were Remainers. Which is totally disingenuous and false. 

No not at all. I can't stand May, but she's old school Tory.

 

She hates Corbyn more than probably any other Tory I've seen and the reason for that IMO is that she thinks he's a communist and s genuine threat to her view of Britain. 

 

That generation of Tory view Britain as the South East and its hinterland. The Royal Family (watch how she bows), the HMS Victory museum, Cornish ice cream and so forth. That's what conservatism is. You plant your flag on something you like and try and stop people from changing it, even if it's for the better.

 

The new breed, the Camerons and Osbornes, this lot, would sell everything she likes about Britain to a Russian oligarch for 50 pence. 

[Jose Jones]

15 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

No not at all. I can't stand May, but she's old school Tory.

 

She hates Corbyn more than probably any other Tory I've seen and the reason for that IMO is that she thinks he's a communist and s genuine threat to her view of Britain. 

 

That generation of Tory view Britain as the South East and its hinterland. The Royal Family (watch how she bows), the HMS Victory museum, Cornish ice cream and so forth. That's what conservatism is. You plant your flag on something you like and try and stop people from changing it, even if it's for the better.

 

The new breed, the Camerons and Osbornes, this lot, would sell everything she likes about Britain to a Russian oligarch for 50 pence. 

It’s maybe what old conservatism is, but it’s never really been what the Tory party is about.

The Tories were founded as a party to look after the interests of wealthy landowners. And that’s been their driving goal ever since. To look after the wealthy and maintain their position at the expense of the many.

 

Previous generations the wealthy were the British upper class. In this day of globalisation the wealthy are tax avoiding non doms and dubious foreign regimes. It’s still the same Tory Party doing Tory things.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Rebecca Long Bailey on the BBC was awful.  Just parroting lines. 

She often comes across like that. Not great.

[Em City]

On 29/08/2019 at 10:53, Boss said:

 

You know what's funny? all the people attacking me were the ones that used to rep every one of my posts - like yourself. Em City was talking about missing me as a poster on the missing posters thread. Be careful what you wish for lads.

 

You're a top f**ty poster and I remember you being a decent contributor on the GF a while back. You've gone full WUM lately though and deserve every bit of the opprobrium you're getting. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just 5 years ago, only 11% considered the EU as a very important political issue.

 

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/economy-immigration-and-healthcare-are-britons-top-three-issues-deciding-general-election-vote

 

It's mad how quickly it has become a fundamental dividing line; one that provokes the worst accusations and insults from both sides and a seemingly complete inability and unwillingness for people to find common ground. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

20 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

She often comes across like that. Not great.

Not sure who it was on here that recommended her as a potential leader of the Labour Party who could win an election, but I think it's fair to say... no thanks, la'. 

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/irish-border-after-brexit-all-ideas-beset-by-issues

 

Leaked report indicating that there's no solution without problems for the Irish border. Just embarrassing this.

[Section_31]

24 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/irish-border-after-brexit-all-ideas-beset-by-issues

 

Leaked report indicating that there's no solution without problems for the Irish border. Just embarrassing this.

I don't think they care, I don't think they care about Scotland either (possibly one of the reasons Davidson has jumped ship). They probably view both as having very little impact on the Tory party's fortunes in the coming years (they'd probably be right). 

 

Jettisoning Scotland would also be a huge blow to Labour, as being able to take it back would be probably the only way it'll ever get a decent majority in Parliament again.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Rebecca Long Bailey on the BBC was awful.  Just parroting lines. 

Dont know her. Would she be a labour mp by any chance?

[aRdja]

 

Brexit Party - Tory coalition. Imagine actually voting for them.

[Boss]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

No not at all. I can't stand May, but she's old school Tory.

 

She hates Corbyn more than probably any other Tory I've seen and the reason for that IMO is that she thinks he's a communist and s genuine threat to her view of Britain. 

 

That generation of Tory view Britain as the South East and its hinterland. The Royal Family (watch how she bows), the HMS Victory museum, Cornish ice cream and so forth. That's what conservatism is. You plant your flag on something you like and try and stop people from changing it, even if it's for the better.

 

The new breed, the Camerons and Osbornes, this lot, would sell everything she likes about Britain to a Russian oligarch for 50 pence. 

 

I think ultimately it's arbitrary whether one personifies the values of the old school or the new school when the result is the same. Looking at Theresa May's voting record for example, comparative to Cameron's, it's virtually identical. Cameron voted for more laws that promoted equality and human rights than May. He voted for more EU integration. Their records on welfare and benefits are the same. They both voted to increase taxes with the caveat of both voting against increasing tax for earners over £150,000 a year and both consistently voted to stop the Mansion tax. They both voted to increase tuition fees by £6000. Cameron voted for Proportional representation and May voted against. May voted for mass surveillance and mass retention of information, Cameron didn't. May voted against measures to try and curtail climate change, Cameron voted a mixture of for and against. May voted to privatise Royal Mail, Cameron didn't.

 

Now bearing in mind these votes are the things that actually change the country, not how May bows to the Queen or what she says in a pre-written speech to the survivors of WW2 - which is ultimately just Daily Mail fluff. I don't think you can arbitrarily impart morality on one, that you then claim the absence of in the other. If they both deliver the same thing, then the psychological underpinnings as to why are not important. The result is what matters.

[magicrat]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Dont know her. Would she be a labour mp by any chance?

Thought you would have had Kate Hoey

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Dont know her. Would she be a labour mp by any chance?

Heir apparent to Corbyn. You'll love her.

[magicrat]

4 hours ago, Champions of Europe said:

The latest poll figures have them very strong, so I'd imagine the idea is that if they vote against him they are deselected. Then in a GE the tories clean up and Labour are decimated. They're claiming a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Going to be an interesting week.

About the size of it

Engineer an election, blame the remainers , purge the party and win a majority 

Still high risk despite what the polls may say today 

 

[Rico1304]

I’m going to see my MP on Friday to berate him over Brexit.  

[Boss]

Say what you want about Johnson but this is masterful politicking.

[Denny Crane]

Boss likes a Strongman leader. We might soon find out if the people of the UK do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZonkoVille77]

 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

38 minutes ago, Boss said:

Say what you want about Johnson but this is masterful politicking.

 

Well that remains to be seen. Not everyone swallows his bullshit. He's just relying on those who do, the type who believe the right wing media and have done with previous Tory leaders. I'm certain he'll cut his own throat at some point, his lies will definitely catch up with him. They have before, hence the fact he's been sacked from important positions a few times already. 

[Jenson]

42 minutes ago, Boss said:

Say what you want about Johnson but this is masterful politicking.

This is what you call normalisation.

[mattyq]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Rebecca Long Bailey on the BBC was awful.  Just parroting lines. 

She's terrible and her accent really grates on me

[mattyq]

43 minutes ago, Boss said:

Say what you want about Johnson but this is masterful politicking.

It's really not

He's just throwing the dice and taking a huge gamble and even if he wins he's still left with the basic fact that Brexit is a really stupid idea with really bad consequences

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

Say what you want about Johnson but this is masterful politicking.

If he wins, yes.  He has circumvented the truth and democracy to get this far; we'll see whether he can carry it on to absolute power.

[Strontium]

3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Jettisoning Scotland would also be a huge blow to Labour, as being able to take it back would be probably the only way it'll ever get a decent majority in Parliament again.

 

Labour would have won a healthy majority without Scotland in 1997, 2001 and 2005.