Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Captain Howdy]

Is there a more stock answer from politicians than “The people I speak to”

[Sugar Ape]

They were talking Truss up as the next Chancellor when Johnson was campaigning.

[M_B]

Trump now saying that there will be no trade deal if we introduce a tax on tech companies.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/02/tax-tech-giants-will-rule-us-trade-deal-us-warns-britain2/

 

Marvellous stuff.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, deiseach said:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Unless it's the Tories, when it's both.

Truss, Cleverley, Patel... there's a fair few in that Cabinet who are obviously thick as pigshit.

[Vincent Vega]

The current Tory party are the worst advert for Oxbridge available.

[sir roger]

Not sure what I think about this , may work in Labour / Lib Dems favour but I feel general elections should be fought on a full range of policies and not be a re-run of the referendum.

 

People’s Vote campaign targets 100 marginals in case of snap election

Referendum campaigners urge supporters to ditch party loyalties and employ ‘hard-headed’ tactical voting

 

The campaign leading the push for a second EU referendum has drawn up a hit list of 100 marginal seats in which it will tell Remain supporters to vote tactically at an early general election. The aim is to boost the number of MPs who favour putting the Brexit issue back to the people.

 

The People’s Vote campaign is planning to blitz marginals across England, Scotland and Wales before a widely expected early poll, urging Remainers to ditch their traditional party loyalties where necessary in order to help install pro-referendum MPs or defeat MPs or candidates who oppose a second public vote.

 

Supporters of another referendum believe that if they can boost the number of MPs who support putting the issue back to the people, they can then win a Commons vote to trigger a second vote and reverse Brexit.

 

An internal strategy paper written by the director of the People’s Vote campaign, James McGrory, predicts that “tactical voting will be a bigger factor than in any previous election fought in the UK”. It says that while alliances between Remain parties may be formed in some areas and be helpful, his organisation’s priorities will be “more about individuals than political parties”.

 

Key seats in the PV100 target list include Richmond, where the pro-Brexit Tory MP Zac Goldsmith has a majority of 45 over the Lib Dems; Chingford and Woodford Green, where the former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith has a majority of only 2,438 over Labour; and Chipping Barnet, which Theresa Villiers, the secretary of state for environment, food and rural affairs, won at the 2017 election by just 353 votes over Labour.

 

The PV campaign will also fight to defend pro-referendum sitting MPs including the Liberal Democrat Layla Moran in Oxford West and Abingdon, who ousted the Tory Nicola Blackwood by just 816 at the 2017 general election.

McGrory says campaign structures and teams will be set up for all the seats, and that voters will be targeted digitally. “In some cases we will be asking Labour supporters to vote for other parties such as the Liberal Democrats. In many others we will be asking supporters of the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or others to vote Labour. This is based on nothing more than the hard-headed acknowledgement of which party is best placed to beat an opponent of the people’s vote,” he said.

 

“In marginal seats where the Labour candidate does not support a people’s vote on any Brexit outcome, we will not give our backing. But we recognise that we will be asking some of our supporters to ‘hold their noses’ and vote for a party they dislike. We hope this will be a one-off based solely on the importance of securing a democratic people’s vote on the most crucial issue of our generation.”

 

Boris Johnson has insisted he is not planning an early general election before the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October. But many MPs believe that the prime minister will call one early next month if he cannot secure an improved deal with the EU, and use it to ask the British for a mandate to take the country out without a deal.

Johnson’s Commons majority was cut to one last Thursday when the Lib Dems ousted the sitting Tory MP, Chris Davies, in the Brecon and Radnorshire byelection. The Lib Dems were helped over the line by the Greens and Plaid Cymru, who did not put up candidates so as not to split the Remain vote.

 

While similar Remain alliances are likely to be formed in some areas at a general election, neither Labour nor the SNP is prepared to stand down candidates, meaning such agreements will be limited in number, and decided informally according to local circumstances.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I caught the end of Newsnight last night and Marc Urban was talking to some Telegraph journo at the end of the show. Anyway they were taking about the next day’s papers and the journo fella said that Dominic Cummings has been briefing all the Downing Street staff that there’s going to be a budget in early October. They then went on to speculate that this was ridiculous given Johnson has a majority of 1 and that it would cause an immediate no confidence vote meaning an election has to happen. We would then crash out of Europe as per the law because of Article 50, and as parliament isn’t sitting they wouldn’t be able to do a thing about it.

 

If this hypothesising is correct, I hope the MPs are wise to it and are taking steps to prevent such a scenario.

[magicrat]

30 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Not sure what I think about this , may work in Labour / Lib Dems favour but I feel general elections should be fought on a full range of policies and not be a re-run of the referendum.

 

People’s Vote campaign targets 100 marginals in case of snap election

Referendum campaigners urge supporters to ditch party loyalties and employ ‘hard-headed’ tactical voting

 

The campaign leading the push for a second EU referendum has drawn up a hit list of 100 marginal seats in which it will tell Remain supporters to vote tactically at an early general election. The aim is to boost the number of MPs who favour putting the Brexit issue back to the people.

 

The People’s Vote campaign is planning to blitz marginals across England, Scotland and Wales before a widely expected early poll, urging Remainers to ditch their traditional party loyalties where necessary in order to help install pro-referendum MPs or defeat MPs or candidates who oppose a second public vote.

 

Supporters of another referendum believe that if they can boost the number of MPs who support putting the issue back to the people, they can then win a Commons vote to trigger a second vote and reverse Brexit.

 

An internal strategy paper written by the director of the People’s Vote campaign, James McGrory, predicts that “tactical voting will be a bigger factor than in any previous election fought in the UK”. It says that while alliances between Remain parties may be formed in some areas and be helpful, his organisation’s priorities will be “more about individuals than political parties”.

 

Key seats in the PV100 target list include Richmond, where the pro-Brexit Tory MP Zac Goldsmith has a majority of 45 over the Lib Dems; Chingford and Woodford Green, where the former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith has a majority of only 2,438 over Labour; and Chipping Barnet, which Theresa Villiers, the secretary of state for environment, food and rural affairs, won at the 2017 election by just 353 votes over Labour.

 

The PV campaign will also fight to defend pro-referendum sitting MPs including the Liberal Democrat Layla Moran in Oxford West and Abingdon, who ousted the Tory Nicola Blackwood by just 816 at the 2017 general election.

McGrory says campaign structures and teams will be set up for all the seats, and that voters will be targeted digitally. “In some cases we will be asking Labour supporters to vote for other parties such as the Liberal Democrats. In many others we will be asking supporters of the Liberal Democrats, the Greens or others to vote Labour. This is based on nothing more than the hard-headed acknowledgement of which party is best placed to beat an opponent of the people’s vote,” he said.

 

“In marginal seats where the Labour candidate does not support a people’s vote on any Brexit outcome, we will not give our backing. But we recognise that we will be asking some of our supporters to ‘hold their noses’ and vote for a party they dislike. We hope this will be a one-off based solely on the importance of securing a democratic people’s vote on the most crucial issue of our generation.”

 

Boris Johnson has insisted he is not planning an early general election before the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October. But many MPs believe that the prime minister will call one early next month if he cannot secure an improved deal with the EU, and use it to ask the British for a mandate to take the country out without a deal.

Johnson’s Commons majority was cut to one last Thursday when the Lib Dems ousted the sitting Tory MP, Chris Davies, in the Brecon and Radnorshire byelection. The Lib Dems were helped over the line by the Greens and Plaid Cymru, who did not put up candidates so as not to split the Remain vote.

 

While similar Remain alliances are likely to be formed in some areas at a general election, neither Labour nor the SNP is prepared to stand down candidates, meaning such agreements will be limited in number, and decided informally according to local circumstances.

 

The next GE will be about Brexit only and it an us or them scenario. No way can the Tories be allowed to get in again.

[Red Phoenix]

45 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I caught the end of Newsnight last night and Marc Urban was talking to some Telegraph journo at the end of the show. Anyway they were taking about the next day’s papers and the journo fella said that Dominic Cummings has been briefing all the Downing Street staff that there’s going to be a budget in early October. They then went on to speculate that this was ridiculous given Johnson has a majority of 1 and that it would cause an immediate no confidence vote meaning an election has to happen. We would then crash out of Europe as per the law because of Article 50, and as parliament isn’t sitting they wouldn’t be able to do a thing about it.

 

If this hypothesising is correct, I hope the MPs are wise to it and are taking steps to prevent such a scenario.

 

That doesn't have to happen. There's a 14 day period after no confidence where a group of MP's could get a confidence motion passed to form a new government. If that happened they could maybe get an extension from the EU to stop us crashing out, then call an election.

 

The only thing they'd need in such a case (unless I have something wrong here) would be a majority of MP's in parliament agreeing that a temp government should be formed to stop us crashing out. Then they could withdraw that support once an extension from the EU is passed (if the EU agrees to it) for the election.

[Vincent Vega]

12 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

That doesn't have to happen. There's a 14 day period after no confidence where a group of MP's could get a confidence motion passed to form a new government. If that happened they could maybe get an extension from the EU to stop us crashing out, then call an election.

I’ve no idea mate, just reporting what two fellas I’d expect to be well informed were speculating. I hope you’re right and that the MPs are prepared for Johnson and his games.

[Red Phoenix]

Just now, Vincent Vega said:

I’ve no idea mate, just reporting what two fellas I’d expect to be well informed were speculating. We hope you’re right and that the MPs are prepared for Johnson and his games.

Yeah if no confidence is passed I don't think there's any way Johnson can simply call an election, he wouldn't have the power to within the 14 day period of losing confidence I don't think. That's unless no new government can be formed, and if crashing out with no deal needs a temp government to stop it, it should be possible.

 

If it's not then Johnson could simply call an election closer to the date meaning we're out, can't see that being right.

[Red Phoenix]

There's a BBC editor talking about the same thing here mostly (there's a thread if you click the date/time at the bottom or text in his tweet.) The Telegraph are peddling more shite by the looks of it.

 

 

[Gnasher]

23 hours ago, TK421 said:

Haha, yeah this is all "standard".  Nothing out of the ordinary. 

I do hope a few on here don't live in a greenhouse,  you be cleaning up a lot of glass

 

 

https://www.nhh.no/en/nhh-bulletin/article-archive/2018/november/eu-growth-the-lowest-in-five-years.-we-should-be-concerned/

 

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I tried to read that Faisal Islam thread but it's almost in code. It's one of those where you have to already know the backdrop to all the different things he's referring to. I'm not enough of a parliamentary procedures nerd to understand it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

52 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I do hope a few on here don't live in a greenhouse,  you be cleaning up a lot of glass

 

 

https://www.nhh.no/en/nhh-bulletin/article-archive/2018/november/eu-growth-the-lowest-in-five-years.-we-should-be-concerned/

 

 

 

 

He argues that the underlying causes are disparities between Member States in terms of employment, productivity and investment.  He concludes that greater cooperation between Member States  - an "ever-closer union" if you will - is needed.

[M_B]

The gall of these twats. After Boris takes the position that we won't enter talks unless the EU drop the backstop, the EU reply they aren't going to drop the backstop so there won't be any talks. Gove then spins it as being the EU's fault.

 

 

[Chairman Meow]

18 minutes ago, M_B said:

The gall of these twats. After Boris takes the position that we won't enter talks unless the EU drop the backstop, the EU reply they aren't going to drop the backstop so there won't be any talks. Gove then spins it as being the EU's fault.

 

 

 

It's Conservative party standard behavior, anything bad that has ever happened has NEVER been their fault. It's the unions, lazy people, people with bad backs, the EU, the anti patriotic, the socialists, the Labour party, the Lib-Dems, the EU, people with mental health, the poor etc. etc. but NEVER EVER something they have done.

 

 

[magicrat]

If that's the best tactic they can come up with they're fucked. Blaming the EU for their incompetence was so obviously coming down the tracks that it won't wash with any Remainers . Only the knobheads will lap it up to double down on their prejudices .

[Barrington Womble]

On 04/08/2019 at 00:21, Vincent Vega said:

I caught the end of Newsnight last night and Marc Urban was talking to some Telegraph journo at the end of the show. Anyway they were taking about the next day’s papers and the journo fella said that Dominic Cummings has been briefing all the Downing Street staff that there’s going to be a budget in early October. They then went on to speculate that this was ridiculous given Johnson has a majority of 1 and that it would cause an immediate no confidence vote meaning an election has to happen. We would then crash out of Europe as per the law because of Article 50, and as parliament isn’t sitting they wouldn’t be able to do a thing about it.

 

If this hypothesising is correct, I hope the MPs are wise to it and are taking steps to prevent such a scenario.

If there is a no confidence vote in the government, it does not mean there has to be a general election. Jeremey Corbyn will have the opportunity to attempt to form a government and if he can get the numbers, can at that point speak to the queen - with a number of Tory MP's thinking of defecting to the lib Dems, this is more than possible. It's actually seen by the anti-no deal group as a way to ensure there's no chance of no deal. The apparent plan would be Corbyn to form a short term government which would allow him to go to Brussels and get an extension, change law so no-deal stops being the default position, before calling a GE. 

[Barrington Womble]

8 hours ago, M_B said:

The gall of these twats. After Boris takes the position that we won't enter talks unless the EU drop the backstop, the EU reply they aren't going to drop the backstop so there won't be any talks. Gove then spins it as being the EU's fault.

 

 

It's not too dissimilar a plan to when May supposedly wanted a cross party solution to brexit. Let's soon the story until there can only be one side to blame. What fucked her up was she didn't expect labour to not walk away. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm getting increasingly despondent by the day.  We have somehow contrived to hand the reins of power to a tiny clique consisting solely of people corrupted to the soul and greedy enough to cynically trash the country's future in order to enrich themselves.  Any hope of stopping them rests on people with a track-record of being short-sighted, narrow-minded and utterly egocentric all deciding to act wisely and in the national interest.  It's not much of a hope.

 

When I think of Corbyn trying to stop Johnson, I think of WB Yeats:

For how can you compete,

Being honour bred, with one

Who were it proved he lies

Were neither shamed in his own

Nor in his neighbours' eyes?

[Red Phoenix]

I'm actually looking forward to them getting back to parliament. Nothing's getting done before then so a lot of what we read doesn't really add up to much, and once they're back if there's ever a time when the Tories are likely to be in serious trouble as a party it should be then. We know there's not much time left to stop no deal so any plans to try and stop that should be carried out fairly quickly.

 

The public support for leaving with no deal then selling the country out to the US in a trade deal isn't that big either I don't think, so all the talk about parliament being anti-democratic is kind of comical as well.

[Section_31]

19 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I'm getting increasingly despondent by the day.  We have somehow contrived to hand the reins of power to a tiny clique consisting solely of people corrupted to the soul and greedy enough to cynically trash the country's future in order to enrich themselves.  Any hope of stopping them rests on people with a track-record of being short-sighted, narrow-minded and utterly egocentric all deciding to act wisely and in the national interest.  It's not much of a hope.

 

When I think of Corbyn trying to stop Johnson, I think of WB Yeats:

For how can you compete,

Being honour bred, with one

Who were it proved he lies

Were neither shamed in his own

Nor in his neighbours' eyes?

Nah will all go tits up for them soon. They won't get anything passed and there are too many enemies on the back benches.

 

But Labour needs to get its shit together though, its infighting, lack of message discipline or coherent political strategy are a huge roadblock and that's got nothing to do with Johnson. 

[SasaS]

25 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I'm getting increasingly despondent by the day.  We have somehow contrived to hand the reins of power to a tiny clique consisting solely of people corrupted to the soul and greedy enough to cynically trash the country's future in order to enrich themselves.  Any hope of stopping them rests on people with a track-record of being short-sighted, narrow-minded and utterly egocentric all deciding to act wisely and in the national interest.  It's not much of a hope.

 

When I think of Corbyn trying to stop Johnson, I think of WB Yeats:

 

 

That's a bit harsh on Corbyn.

[Red Phoenix]

If we can hold out until Sept 20th when Area 51 is stormed the US will be too busy for trade deals anyway, they'll have to deal with this instead :