Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Guest Pistonbroke]

4 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Belgian style > Dutch style 

 

Easily. It's not a contest. 

I've not had enough of the Belgium ones to decide. 

 

Deffo....Dutch>German, although I prefer Bratkartoffeln to Chips. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

 

This is the "British people won't work those jobs" logical fallacy that i've rebuked about ten times on here - with evidence. What jobs, specifically, will British people not do? And have you spoke to all 65,000,000 of them to gain this consensus that gets parroted?

 

 

 

 

 

I could say the same about you as far as why a certain percent of Brits don't speak a second language or work abroad etc....Did you ask all 65 million why they don't? How comes that certain industries (especially medial work) are crying out for workers and crying about not being able to fill the vacancies with European workers and complain about not enough Brits wanting to do the work. Don't tell me, the wages have been dumbed down by johnny foreigner and that's the only reason Brits won't do that work . Actually, don't bother. 

[Boss]

5 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

I could say the same about you as far as why a certain percent of Brits don't speak a second language or work abroad etc....Did you ask all 65 million why they don't? How comes that certain industries (especially medial work) are crying out for workers and crying about not being able to fill the vacancies with European workers and complain about not enough Brits wanting to do the work. Don't tell me, the wages have been dumbed down by johnny foreigner and that's the only reason Brits won't do that work . Actually, don't bother. 

 

Well I used facts like English being the most popular second language in the world to back up my argument. You used fallacies that have no basis in reality - outside of socialist blogs. Can you elaborate on specific jobs that British people won't do please? because the whole basis of your argument is that Estonian immigrants are an asset to the economy because they do jobs that British people won't do. It's kind of important to know what these jobs are.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

The distain with which you talk about British people stands you in good stead with your EU masters. 

Wait... have you morphed into Gnash?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

4 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Well I used facts like English being the most popular second language in the world to back up my argument. You used fallacies that have no basis in reality - outside of socialist blogs. Can you elaborate on specific jobs that British people won't do please? because the whole basis of your argument is that Estonian immigrants are an asset to the economy because they do jobs that British people won't do. It's kind of important to know what these jobs are.

 

You brought up Estonians as an example, I also used Estonians as an Example, but I was on about all EU workers in General who work in the UK. If you want to ignore the warnings by Thinktank etc on the impact Brexit is having due to certain industries relying on Foreign nationals then you go for it. 

[Boss]

13 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

You brought up Estonians as an example, I also used Estonians as an Example, but I was on about all EU workers in General who work in the UK. If you want to ignore the warnings by Thinktank etc on the impact Brexit is having due to certain industries relying on Foreign nationals then you go for it. 

 

With all due respect, I haven't disputed that Brexit will have an effect on certain industries - it'll have an effect on the whole country for a while. I'm disputing the "British people won't do these jobs" narrative you're pushing. You still haven't named what these specific jobs are.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, cloggypop said:

Brussels is way closer than Paris. 

The people of Brussels  wouldnt dare show discontent ; would they..

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

There are posters on this thread who are living and working in mainland EU course , right now.

 

For those of us who remain in the UK, we benefit from a more diverse and skilled workforce, giving a boost to the entire economy and contributing to the public purse. And those are just the crass financial benefits; the cultural, societal and personal benefits are less easy to monetise.

 But the lower paid sector lose out Angry,  all the reports state it. Lower wage earners lose medium and high earbers gain. Its in all the data. Here ypu go have another read...

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

 

Or dont these low earning type of people matter in your squalid little cesspit of greed?

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think I preferred life before the internet. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

16 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

With all due respect, I haven't disputed that Brexit will have an effect on certain industries - it'll have an effect on the whole country for a while. I'm disputing the "British people won't do these jobs" narrative you're pushing. You still haven't named what these specific jobs are.

 

I don't have to, it's common knowledge and I'll be fucked if I'm feeding your arrogance. Plus have you asked all 65 million if they would be prepared to work in the obvious areas I'm on about, surely you can work out which areas I'm on about, especially if you have asked them all. Plus let's be honest, the 65 million figure is hardly accurate, unless you include, Children, the retired and the disabled. 

Unlike Gnasher, who's just an angry voice, you are intelligent enough. So I have to ask what you'll get out of Brexit. Because let's be honest, the Brits have acted like Clowns in their handling of it, it really isn't going that well, unless you think the USA are coming to the rescue. 

 

A. You'll benefit on a personal level.

B. You have a dislike of the Multi cultural World we are moving to.  (Most, if not all countries would struggle without immigration on most levels.)

C. You had a hiding from a Pole and hold a grudge against European immigrants. 

D. You are so nationalistic you can't see past what is wrong with Brexit, despite realising the damage it will do.  Nobody knows what damage and how long it will take to get over it, but there will be damage. But accepting damage of any form is pretty stupid imo.

 

Maybes a mixture of all. 

 

Dumping a massive Trading bloc to go on your own is not what I would call intelligent. It's not like any future trading partners are going to cause problems or want to have the very same issues the Brexiteers want rid of. Other issues which the EU have can be worked on, if MEP's actually gave a fuck to turn up. 

I also have to laugh at (not you personally) Brits saying a No Deal Scenario would be the fault of the EU. The UK want to leave the club, yet its the Clubs fault that they won't give you preferential treatment as a non member. That's just arrogance and self importance. 

[Bjornebye]

13 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I think I preferred life before the internet. 

I don't know if I could go back to Razzle to be honest. Too much water under the bridge. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

24 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 But the lower paid sector lose out Angry,  all the reports state it. Lower wage earners lose medium and high earbers gain. Its in all the data. Here ypu go have another read...

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

 

Or dont these low earning type of people matter in your squalid little cesspit of greed?

Exploitative bosses are exploiting workers. Socialists know that the answer is to give workers more rights. Your response is to take rights away from workers.

 

You've picked your side.

[Pureblood]

3 hours ago, Boss said:

You don't see droves of British workers flooding into Estonia for work do you? 

This is Daily Mail language.

[Boss]

33 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

I don't have to, it's common knowledge and I'll be fucked if I'm feeding your arrogance. Plus have you asked all 65 million if they would be prepared to work in the obvious areas I'm on about, surely you can work out which areas I'm on about, especially if you have asked them all. Plus let's be honest, the 65 million figure is hardly accurate, unless you include, Children, the retired and the disabled. 

Unlike Gnasher, who's just an angry voice, you are intelligent enough. So I have to ask what you'll get out of Brexit. Because let's be honest, the Brits have acted like Clowns in their handling of it, it really isn't going that well, unless you think the USA are coming to the rescue. 

 

A. You'll benefit on a personal level.

B. You have a dislike of the Multi cultural World we are moving to.  (Most, if not all countries would struggle without immigration on most levels.)

C. You had a hiding from a Pole and hold a grudge against European immigrants. 

D. You are so nationalistic you can't see past what is wrong with Brexit, despite realising the damage it will do.  Nobody knows what damage and how long it will take to get over it, but there will be damage. But accepting damage of any form is pretty stupid imo.

 

Maybes a mixture of all. 

 

Dumping a massive Trading bloc to go on your own is not what I would call intelligent. It's not like any future trading partners are going to cause problems or want to have the very same issues the Brexiteers want rid of. Other issues which the EU have can be worked on, if MEP's actually gave a fuck to turn up. 

I also have to laugh at (not you personally) Brits saying a No Deal Scenario would be the fault of the EU. The UK want to leave the club, yet its the Clubs fault that they won't give you preferential treatment as a non member. That's just arrogance and self importance. 

 

I can extrapolate what you mean by it though, the sewer worker, the fruit pickers, the cockles farmers of Morecombe Bay. The reason why I object to that line of reasoning is because it's simply not true. Most of these jobs are done by illegal workers. They are often paid by the amount of produce they pick as opposed to an hourly salary, and they are paid far far below minimum wage levels. They aren't in the system as a PAYE. They aren't paying taxes to HMRC or national insurance contributions. They get paid cash at the end of the week or work day.

 

I had this discussion with Stronts on here about 6 months ago where he seriously believed that British workers wouldn't pick fruit for £8.21 per hour. Of course they would. What you mean is British workers wouldn't pick 1000 apples for £2.50, but that's entirely logical. What you're asking of them is illegal. It's a slave wage.

 

So that gets misconstrued to mean British workers are lazy or work shy because they refuse to be treated like a slave. So what you're really advocating is one of two things. You're either condoning the farmers and the people that exploit workers in that manner - and think they should be left alone, or you want British workers to remove any sense of entitlement they possess and work in what ostensibly amounts to a colonial slave economy. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

41 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't know if I could go back to Razzle to be honest. Too much water under the bridge. 

So you're admitting to shooting tattie water.....

[Guest Pistonbroke]

2 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I can extrapolate what you mean by it though, the sewer worker, the fruit pickers, the cockles farmers of Morecombe Bay. The reason why I object to that line of reasoning is because it's simply not true. Most of these jobs are done by illegal workers. They are often paid by the amount of produce they pick as opposed to an hourly salary, and they are paid far far below minimum wage levels. They aren't in the system as a PAYE. They aren't paying taxes to HMRC or national insurance contributions. They get paid cash at the end of the week or work day.

 

I had this discussion with Stronts on here about 6 months ago where he seriously believed that British workers wouldn't pick fruit for £8.21 per hour. Of course they would. What you mean is British workers wouldn't pick 1000 apples for £2.50, but that's entirely logical. What you're asking of them is illegal. It's a slave wage.

 

So that gets misconstrued to mean British workers are lazy or work shy because they refuse to be treated like a slave. So what you're really advocating is one of two things. You're either condoning the farmers and the people that exploit workers in that manner - and think they should be left alone, or you want British workers to remove any sense of entitlement they possess and work in what ostensibly amounts to a colonial slave economy. 

I never said that, I also didn't mention those other jobs you mentioned, plus where is your proof that they are all working illegally? Have you asked everyone if they would pick fruit for 8.21 an hour? Do you really think farmers could survive if they can't get the cheap workers, it's not the EU who set the wages, it's the farmers, and the fact why most people want to buy cheap products in supermarkets. This kicking the can lark is real easy. 

 

Fancy quoting/replying to the rest of my post? I'm really intrigued as to why you think Brexit is such a great idea and if you answer to A,B,C or D. 

[Pureblood]

11 minutes ago, Boss said:

Most of these jobs are done by illegal workers. They are often paid by the amount of produce they pick as opposed to an hourly salary, and they are paid far far below minimum wage levels. They aren't in the system as a PAYE. They aren't paying taxes to HMRC or national insurance contributions. They get paid cash at the end of the week or work day.

What do you mean by "illegal workers"?  People from the EU exercising their right to freedom of movement aren't "illegal workers", they are here legally.  So you must be referring to those outside the EU.  In which case, it's not an EU issue. 

 

If businesses are paying people below the minimum wage then they're breaking the law, breaking the law.  Again, that's not an EU issue.  

 

Finally, there is evidence to show that EU migrants in the UK make a net positive contribution and contribute more to the public purse than UK nationals, so you can't blame them for tax-dodging. 

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

 

Last year, the average adult migrant from the EEA yielded £2,370 ($3,000) more for the Treasury than the average British-born adult did. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

 

If businesses are paying people below the minimum wage then they're breaking the law, breaking the law.  Again, that's not an EU issue.  

And in that case, we need to talk about illegal employers, rather than illegal workers.

[Boss]

7 minutes ago, TK421 said:

What do you mean by "illegal workers"?  People from the EU exercising their right to freedom of movement aren't "illegal workers", they are here legally.  So you must be referring to those outside the EU.  In which case, it's not an EU issue. 

 

If businesses are paying people below the minimum wage then they're breaking the law, breaking the law.  Again, that's not an EU issue.  

 

I mean illegal workers. Workers that are here illegally. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

You're wasting your time lads. Apparently saying 'British workers are not prepared to do jobs they find demeaning= They are lazy or work shy in Boss's books. Also I'm demeaning towards Brits, despite being British myself. 

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

 

I mean illegal workers. Workers that are here illegally. 

So not EU migrants, then.  Thanks for clarifying.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

3 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I mean illegal workers. Workers that are here illegally. 

 

So nothing to do with the EU then. You also get Brits working illegally. Plus if they are illegally working, how do you or those quoting the figures get their information from? 

[Boss]

1 hour ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

I don't have to, it's common knowledge and I'll be fucked if I'm feeding your arrogance. Plus have you asked all 65 million if they would be prepared to work in the obvious areas I'm on about, surely you can work out which areas I'm on about, especially if you have asked them all. Plus let's be honest, the 65 million figure is hardly accurate, unless you include, Children, the retired and the disabled. 

Unlike Gnasher, who's just an angry voice, you are intelligent enough. So I have to ask what you'll get out of Brexit. Because let's be honest, the Brits have acted like Clowns in their handling of it, it really isn't going that well, unless you think the USA are coming to the rescue. 

 

A. You'll benefit on a personal level.

B. You have a dislike of the Multi cultural World we are moving to.  (Most, if not all countries would struggle without immigration on most levels.)

C. You had a hiding from a Pole and hold a grudge against European immigrants. 

D. You are so nationalistic you can't see past what is wrong with Brexit, despite realising the damage it will do.  Nobody knows what damage and how long it will take to get over it, but there will be damage. But accepting damage of any form is pretty stupid imo.

 

Maybes a mixture of all. 

 

Dumping a massive Trading bloc to go on your own is not what I would call intelligent. It's not like any future trading partners are going to cause problems or want to have the very same issues the Brexiteers want rid of. Other issues which the EU have can be worked on, if MEP's actually gave a fuck to turn up. 

I also have to laugh at (not you personally) Brits saying a No Deal Scenario would be the fault of the EU. The UK want to leave the club, yet its the Clubs fault that they won't give you preferential treatment as a non member. That's just arrogance and self importance. 

 

A. I do not benefit personally

 

B. i do not have any dislike for multiculturalism

 

C. I hold no grudges against any Eastern European migrant playing the system at their disposal for their or their families benefit.

 

D. I'm not particularly nationalistic, although I may come across as nationalistic on here (in a vacuum) because the general consensus is to hate the country and everything that's happening within it - including our historical political figures.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

So in all essence you have no reason to support Brexit other than you have a hard on for Historical figures. I reckon you are lying. Who hates the country? They hate how it is run under certain governments, they hate certain individuals or political groups, to say they hate the Country is absolutely mind boggling. You have an agenda , but when you are asked about it you hide behind a load of bollocks. 

[Pureblood]

10 minutes ago, Boss said:

B. i do not have any dislike for multiculturalism

Haha.