Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Strontium]

Gnasher would see the country burn if it meant a toff not getting a subsidy.

 

Do you think perhaps you're a little bit obsessed?

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be a dick here, if you could not see that Brexit basically gave/has given the conservative party carte blanche to turn the country into an even more right wing low tax/low spend hell hole then you are either not living in the real world or you are thick as fuck.

 

I remember going to some meeting in central London where those on the left from trade unions to academia were having a debate about the merits of Brexit (post the vote) the glee of the lad flogging the morning star always stayed with me. That he was so happy we'd left this institution that protects the environment, backs science and technology, lays out basic workers rights and redistributes funds to economically deprived regions often against the wishes of national governments, when we had a conservative party in power who were able to set the direction the country would take and with the fixed term parliament act basically meaning we couldn't get rid of them, just fantasy land stuff.

 

Personally having been involved in both renewable energy industry, environmental consultancy and having worked for the NHS for the last half decade, the legislation originating from the E.U. is often the only thing preventing people and the environment being completely exploited.

 

People can talk about some left wing national take over as an opportunity brexit presents to reset where the country is headed, but the right have the press/media, industry, capital, external malefactors and a chunk of our democratic institutions sewn up. So all I would say is, good luck with that.

It's not "thick as fuck" to put forward an arguement against the EU. That's another sweeping statement along the lines of bigot and racist.

 

You may have an easy target when calling me "thick" and you may be right  but to label the likes of Benn, Crow, Foot, Galloway or all the other many many people in this country over the years who disagree with the eu as thick as fuck is  silly ignorance.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/revealed-how-we-pay-our-richest-landowners-millions-subsidies

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It's not "thick as fuck" to put forward an arguement against the EU. That's another sweeping statement along the lines of bigot and racist.

 

You may have an easy target when calling me "thick" and you may be right  but to label the likes of Benn, Crow, Foot, Galloway or all the other many many people in this country over the years who disagree with the eu as thick as fuck is  silly ignorance.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/revealed-how-we-pay-our-richest-landowners-millions-subsidies

The writer below hardly thick as fuck mozerato he's just one of the many who holds legitimate concerns regarding the EU

. 

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/corbyn-labour-eu-single-market-economic-policy

[Gnasher]

30 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

Gnasher would see the country burn if it meant a toff not getting a subsidy.

 

Do you think perhaps you're a little bit obsessed?

Just trying to balance the debate a bit so it reflects the outside world stronts.

 

Actually you might not be that far of the mark with both your points.

[Anubis]

 

 

[moof]

Fucking hell. Just end it now 

 

praying for a meteor here

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Words fail me. 

[Gnasher]

^ oh come on? They are American and we got one of them Spezialatastic relationship things.

[Gnasher]

6 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

Really can't be bothered responding to the above, I sit in meeting after meeting where people bitch nd moan about the working time directive and would have junior doctors imprisoned in wards given half a chance, in the same said meetings there are endless whining about the inability to now recruit from the southern European states and the huge gaps in our junior doctor rotas and nursing vacancy because of Brexit.

 

When I was consulting, I sat at north east farmers tables (who were about as far away from millionaires as you could get) and worked through with them the planting of significant amounts of deciduous woodland instead of useless set aside, getting hedgeroes installed and setting up wind turbines to provide local electricity and to the national grid  big chunks of the money to do that came from the E.U. locally directed by SEPA. All of this demonstrably improved the environment and has helped Scotland lead as a renewable energy providor.

 

I remember discussions at my firm about westminster being annoyed at the level of ERDF being given to the highlands/islands and that they felt it was being spent incorrectly. How a gang of Tory pricks in London know what's better for people than those on the ground, in Edinburgh and Brussles I'll never know.

 

 

Care to share who these poor farmers are you speak of?  Are any in the list I of  parasites i provided? If not can you give any information?

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be a dick here, if you could not see that Brexit basically gave/has given the conservative party carte blanche to turn the country into an even more right wing low tax/low spend hell hole then you are either not living in the real world or you are thick as fuck.

 

I remember going to some meeting in central London where those on the left from trade unions to academia were having a debate about the merits of Brexit (post the vote) the glee of the lad flogging the morning star always stayed with me. That he was so happy we'd left this institution that protects the environment, backs science and technology, lays out basic workers rights and redistributes funds to economically deprived regions often against the wishes of national governments, when we had a conservative party in power who were able to set the direction the country would take and with the fixed term parliament act basically meaning we couldn't get rid of them, just fantasy land stuff.

 

Personally having been involved in both renewable energy industry, environmental consultancy and having worked for the NHS for the last half decade, the legislation originating from the E.U. is often the only thing preventing people and the environment being completely exploited.

 

People can talk about some left wing national take over as an opportunity brexit presents to reset where the country is headed, but the right have the press/media, industry, capital, external malefactors and a chunk of our democratic institutions sewn up. So all I would say is, good luck with that.

Hmmm. Tory lite  written all over it.

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

Really can't be bothered responding to the above, I sit in meeting after meeting where people bitch nd moan about the working time directive and would have junior doctors imprisoned in wards given half a chance, in the same said meetings there are endless whining about the inability to now recruit from the southern European states and the huge gaps in our junior doctor rotas and nursing vacancy because of Brexit.

 

When I was consulting, I sat at north east farmers tables (who were about as far away from millionaires as you could get) and worked through with them the planting of significant amounts of deciduous woodland instead of useless set aside, getting hedgeroes installed and setting up wind turbines to provide local electricity and to the national grid  big chunks of the money to do that came from the E.U. locally directed by SEPA. All of this demonstrably improved the environment and has helped Scotland lead as a renewable energy providor.

 

I remember discussions at my firm about westminster being annoyed at the level of ERDF being given to the highlands/islands and that they felt it was being spent incorrectly. How a gang of Tory pricks in London know what's better for people than those on the ground, in Edinburgh and Brussles I'll never know.

 

 

Sorry I along with anyone else who are not to keen on Brexit are obviously "thick as fuck" so as im/we're a bit stupid can you give a bit more information on these poor poor farmers/landowners you speak about?

 

Not this one is it ?

 

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/press-releases/emir-dubai-takes-1m-farm-subsidies-horse-breeding-empire-20161023/

[skend04]

36 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Care to share who these poor farmers are you speak of?  Are any in the list I of  parasites i provided? If not can you give any information?

Blimey. There's something you haven't Googled?

[Boss]

11 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be a dick here, if you could not see that Brexit basically gave/has given the conservative party carte blanche to turn the country into an even more right wing low tax/low spend hell hole then you are either not living in the real world or you are thick as fuck.

 

I remember going to some meeting in central London where those on the left from trade unions to academia were having a debate about the merits of Brexit (post the vote) the glee of the lad flogging the morning star always stayed with me. That he was so happy we'd left this institution that protects the environment, backs science and technology, lays out basic workers rights and redistributes funds to economically deprived regions often against the wishes of national governments, when we had a conservative party in power who were able to set the direction the country would take and with the fixed term parliament act basically meaning we couldn't get rid of them, just fantasy land stuff.

 

Personally having been involved in both renewable energy industry, environmental consultancy and having worked for the NHS for the last half decade, the legislation originating from the E.U. is often the only thing preventing people and the environment being completely exploited.

 

People can talk about some left wing national take over as an opportunity brexit presents to reset where the country is headed, but the right have the press/media, industry, capital, external malefactors and a chunk of our democratic institutions sewn up. So all I would say is, good luck with that.

 

With all due respect, the referendum hasn't given the Conservative party carte blanche to do anything. They have been eviscerated in the EU elections because of their policies concerning Brexit. You're conflating the people that voted Conservative in the last election with the people that voted in the referendum.

 

If you voted leave in the referendum it doesn't mean you endorse Theresa May's version of Brexit, just as much as voting Remain doesn't mean you want Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister. The referendum gave a mandate to leave the EU only.

[Moctezuma]

11 hours ago, Boss said:

 

With all due respect, the referendum hasn't given the Conservative party carte blanche to do anything. They have been eviscerated in the EU elections because of their policies concerning Brexit. You're conflating the people that voted Conservative in the last election with the people that voted in the referendum.

 

If you voted leave in the referendum it doesn't mean you endorse Theresa May's version of Brexit, just as much as voting Remain doesn't mean you want Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister. The referendum gave a mandate to leave the EU only.

Like I said not living in the real world, if Johnson or Dominic 'Britannia Unchained' Raab win this leadership contest they have a genuine opportunity to take the U.K. out on a no deal and then set the terms of trade thereafter, regardless of the electoral calculus, also all those people who just 'eviscerated' them at the polls would come flooding back to their ranks.

[Moctezuma]

12 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Hmmm. Tory lite  written all over it.

Aye the boy who is a member of the Labour party, unison, works for the NHS, whose folks come from Merseyside and who was born and grew up in Scotland, who lives in a subsidised housing association flat and has voted Labour/Green his whole life is Tory lite.

Knock yourself out lad.

 

Regarding your request for names of clients from 8/9 years ago I would PM you, but genuinely it's up to you whether I invest my time digging up that stuff from an old USB somewhere or actually carry on trying to get staff onto our wards/set up a sickle cell network in West London/ try and create a national ITP centre etc.

[Moctezuma]

Just to add this is the thing that fucking infuriates me about the left, it's not the boring fucking speeches from old farts and melts at CLP meetings or the lads who know what Roy Jenkins had for breakfast in 1969, it's the lack of pragmatism.

 

When you enemies are in power, do not give them more of it, just for some theoretical set of circumstances.

[Rico1304]

4 hours ago, Moctezuma said:

Aye the boy who is a member of the Labour party, unison, works for the NHS, whose folks come from Merseyside and who was born and grew up in Scotland, who lives in a subsidised housing association flat and has voted Labour/Green his whole life is Tory lite.

Knock yourself out lad.

 

Regarding your request for names of clients from 8/9 years ago I would PM you, but genuinely it's up to you whether I invest my time digging up that stuff from an old USB somewhere or actually carry on trying to get staff onto our wards/set up a sickle cell network in West London/ try and create a national ITP centre etc.

So what you’re saying is you don’t want me to send you an application form? 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

[Guest Pistonbroke]

[Bjornebye]

Even a donkey with a plunger on its head wouldn't have voted for Brexit. 

[magicrat]

3 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Even a donkey with a plunger on its head wouldn't have voted for Brexit. 

17 million did

[mattyq]

Ford in Bridgend closing

Really weird how all these car plants have suddenly started closing and investment in the Industry dropped by 80%

Nothing to do with Brexit, no sirree Bob

All in Leave areas

[sir roger]

One of the (very) few highlights of the morning after the Brexit vote , was a BBC interview in South Wales with an idiot blathering on about getting our country back and that the EU had done nothing for them , when the reporter points to the only two buildings of note in picture and says ‘ well they paid for them for a start ‘.

[magicrat]

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

One of the (very) few highlights of the morning after the Brexit vote , was a BBC interview in South Wales with an idiot blathering on about getting our country back and that the EU had done nothing for them , when the reporter points to the only two buildings of note in picture and says ‘ well they paid for them for a start ‘.

Turkeys and Christmas 

[Gnasher]

On 06/06/2019 at 06:22, Moctezuma said:

Just to add this is the thing that fucking infuriates me about the left, it's not the boring fucking speeches from old farts and melts at CLP meetings or the lads who know what Roy Jenkins had for breakfast in 1969, it's the lack of pragmatism.

 

When you enemies are in power, do not give them more of it, just for some theoretical set of circumstances.

Nice bit of tubthumping. Sems theres a lot that infuriates ypu about the left Moct. You were having a go at some youngster selling the morning star a few posts ago (i thought we chided the kids for being non plussed abour politics) now it's members who are not pragmatic or old farts who know about Roy Jenkins. It would be interesting to know which socialists you do admire Moct? 

 

 If its a lack of pragmatism you hate What is the pragmatic solution? Care to enlighten us?  "When your enemies are in power do not give them more of it" you say., fair enough but can you tell us a 'pragmatic" way out.  

 

The labour heartlands manly voted out so Corbyn is in a bit of a tight spot regarding easy solutions,  I imagine hes also aware of what happened in Scotland when labour lost its core vote, so he's in a bit of a catch 22 situation with no easy answers.