Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Skidfingers McGonical]

6 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Weird that. Does it mean people who work there are thick or something? Chances are someone who’s managed to be an MP will be a bit smarter than say, you. 

That’s not what he is saying though is it.

[Gnasher]

The tories polled 9% . Bumbling Boris is the fav to be their next leader. They also have a cunt called kid malthouse (not a made up name) running. Their membership would fit into Wembley. Their doners are polling out. They are a mess.

[skend04]

23 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Mind reader of the 52% now are you?

 

They were consistently told they would be better off, that we'd be in Berlin the next day signing a free trade deal for an area the size of Saturn. There'd be £350m for the NHS etc etc

 

Now I might be mistaken, but none of that is remotely close to what's happening. So forgive the 48% for asking why isn't what was promised being delivered. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

3 minutes ago, skend04 said:

They were consistently told they would be better off, that we'd be in Berlin the next day signing a free trade deal for an area the size of Saturn. 

 

Now I might be mistaken, but none of that is remotely close to what's happening. So forgive the 48% for asking why isn't what was promised being delivered. 

But the 48% knew it was all bollocks. They all said so at the time. I don’t see any asking of why what was promised isn’t being delivered anymore, it’s all about throwing toys out of the pram and demanding a second ref because they didn’t like the result of the first one. 

 

Elections and referendums are are all won on lies. There is a possibility whatever bullshit was peddled at the time some elements of it could have happened. The problem is you had absolute fuckwits like David Davies who was all about No Deal handling the negotiations and that long armed test May activating Article 50 before a plan was pit in place. 

 

I’m all for staying in, but there is a majority (possibly 2/3’s now) that are abstaining from voting in these Euro and potentially another referendum and GE because they are sick of one side bitching and moaning that they never won and they don’t want to leave and the other side that won that isn’t getting the prize it should get for winning. And they are rightly kicking off.

 

A second referendum won’t change that and a party who will go into a GE with the aim of Remaining will not win because it’s disregarding the 52%. As much as it’s irritating, Leave won, so let’s deal with it. 

 

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

The tories polled 9% . Bumbling Boris is the fav to be their next leader. They also have a cunt called kid malthouse (not a made up name) running. Their membership would fit into Wembley. Their doners are polling out. They are a mess.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Mind reader of the 52% now are you?

 

No. Nobody is. That's the point: there are different versions of what Brexit means and nobody knows which version the Leave voters from 2016 want - because nobody asked them - so no politician can claim a mandate for his or her preferred version. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

42 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

 there is a majority (possibly 2/3’s now) that are abstaining from voting in these Euro and potentially another referendum and GE 

 

Turnout was up on previous European elections; the highest in 20 years. 

 

(If I remember correctly, the 2017 General Election also bucked a trend of falling turnout.)

[deiseach]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

As much as it’s irritating, Leave won, so let’s deal with it. 

The problem is that there is zero evidence that Leave is doing what is required to 'deal with it'. May's withdrawal agreement is a form of dealing-with-it, but Leave is denouncing it as betrayal treason servitude etc. And should Leave get what it is now saying that it wants, a no-deal Brexit, you can be certain that Leave will take absolutely no responsibility for any problems that arise from it. We'll even see some of the more nihilistic elements of Leave, best represented by Jacob Rees-Mogg, blaming The People for lacking the fortitude to avail of the opportunities that arose from the Leave that they so benevolently provided to them. Stanley Baldwin said that what the owners of the British press were "aiming at is power, and power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages". It's still true of the owners of the British press today, and it is applicable to advocates for Leave, which just happens to have a large overlap with the owners of the British press.

[Section_31]

Starting to see some Labour stuff doing the rounds on Twitter of Brexit party 'supporters' shouting racist stuff at a count. 

 

Phase 2. 

[Section_31]

4 minutes ago, deiseach said:

The problem is that there is zero evidence that Leave is doing what is required to 'deal with it'. May's withdrawal agreement is a form of dealing-with-it, but Leave is denouncing it as betrayal treason servitude etc. And should Leave get what it is now saying that it wants, a no-deal Brexit, you can be certain that Leave will take absolutely no responsibility for any problems that arise from it. We'll even see some of the more nihilistic elements of Leave, best represented by Jacob Rees-Mogg, blaming The People for lacking the fortitude to avail of the opportunities that arose from the Leave that they so benevolently provided to them. Stanley Baldwin said that what the owners of the British press were "aiming at is power, and power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages". It's still true of the owners of the British press today, and it is applicable to advocates for Leave, which just happens to have a large overlap with the owners of the British press.

The problem here is the agendas at play.

 

Tories will monitise anything and try and turn it into something which serves their own individual goals. 

 

They turned the aftermath of the economic crash into something which served their goals - I.e the mass sell off of public assetts to their mates. 

 

Brexit provided a golden opportunity for various people at the top to deliberately muddy the waters and trade their support for favours to be named later.

 

Our whole society is poisoned by this culture, unleashed by Thatcher. You see it everywhere.

 

I bet when a contractor gets a job to build a motorway in Norway, Germany or Japan at least a percentage of what goes through their mind involves some sort of what I'd call 'positive nationalism'. Of them thinking 'how can I make this boss?'

 

In Britain, the labourer would be thinking purely about how he could avoid being fucked over on his hours and wages, his boss would be wondering how he could fudge the figures in order to live up to impossible targets, the company owner would be wondering how he could screw more money out of the public nipple, and Chris grayling and chums would be wondering what the easiest and cheapest option is but, when it goes over budget, who gives a fuck because it's not my money.

 

Something as monumental as Brexit was always going to be a clusterfuck not because of inherent difficulties, but because as soon as anything like this happens they're like locusts trying to figure out what they can get out of it.

 

We tolerate it, ignore it, and allow media to convince us that everyone and everything else is the problem.

[Section_31]

"More people signed the petition to revoke article 50 than voted for the Brexit party."

 

Fucking hell.

[Scooby Dudek]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

What is the point of this post?

Isn't it obvious ?

[RedPaul]

What happens next then?

 

Brexit supporting new PM for the Tories. They will go to the EU attempting to re-negotiate the deal. The EU won't alter their stance significantly. The PM states with no change in their position (the EU) then the UK will have to leave on a 'no deal' basis unless the EU radically changes the terms of the deal. As we near deadline day with lots of argument about leaving on a no deal basis a few Tories break ranks as they can't support the idea of a 'no deal' exit. Vote of no confidence in Parliament which the government loses leading to a General Election and Brexit delayed. Farage and his party stand across the country and a significant number of those who voted leave go on to vote for his party changing the political landscape across the country - but hard to predict how...what happens after that is anyone's guess...

 

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about having a confirmatory vote with a decision as profound and significant as Brexit is for the future of the country. It is likely Brexit would win again but at least with the knowledge the public NOW HAS with respect to the decision, noone would be able to argue that it was an uninformed choice. A second vote seems to me to be the most democratic solution to our current political impasse.

 

Either way the country is fucked. It is so divided it's going to take a long time for these divisions to heal. I also fear that if we do leave, Scotland will eventually vote to leave the Union.

[cloggypop]

@johnmcdonnellMP: So people are absolutely clear what I am saying.Of course I want a general election. But I realise how difficult this is to secure.I will do anything I can to block no deal Brexit. So yes if,as likely GE not possible, then I support going back to the people in another referendum

[Jenson]

34 minutes ago, RedPaul said:

What happens next then?

 

Brexit supporting new PM for the Tories. They will go to the EU attempting to re-negotiate the deal. The EU won't alter their stance significantly. The PM states with no change in their position (the EU) then the UK will have to leave on a 'no deal' basis unless the EU radically changes the terms of the deal. As we near deadline day with lots of argument about leaving on a no deal basis a few Tories break ranks as they can't support the idea of a 'no deal' exit. Vote of no confidence in Parliament which the government loses leading to a General Election and Brexit delayed. Farage and his party stand across the country and a significant number of those who voted leave go on to vote for his party changing the political landscape across the country - but hard to predict how...what happens after that is anyone's guess...

 

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about having a confirmatory vote with a decision as profound and significant as Brexit is for the future of the country. It is likely Brexit would win again but at least with the knowledge the public NOW HAS with respect to the decision, noone would be able to argue that it was an uninformed choice. A second vote seems to me to be the most democratic solution to our current political impasse.

 

Either way the country is fucked. It is so divided it's going to take a long time for these divisions to heal. I also fear that if we do leave, Scotland will eventually vote to leave the Union.

Given the rules on political funding, and the fact that the Brexit Party already being looked at by the Electoral Commission, I'm not sure how likely this is.

[Dr Nowt]

Nothing is reuniting this country with regards to Brexit anything like soon. Whatever we end up with now, the infighting, resentment and blame the various sides feel toward one another will continue for years and years.

[Gnasher]

59 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Isn't it obvious ?

No go on.

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Nothing is reuniting this country with regards to Brexit anything like soon. Whatever we end up with now, the infighting, resentment and blame the various sides feel toward one another will continues for years and years.

Good.  Have you seen where being nice has got us?

[Dr Nowt]

The Brexit Party were on point with their branding, visibility, organisation and consistency of message, but of course they were for the last of those. How much division and discord can there be within a single issue party when campaigning solely on that issue?

 

Let’s see them cobble together and campaign for a full, cohesive manifesto, representative of all the various different political stripes economically and socially within that disparate group of chancers, before any certainty they’ll be anything like as successful in a general election as they were in the europeans.

[Dr Nowt]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Good.  Have you seen where being nice has got us?

Just to confirm, I think you’re an absolute and utter twat and it amazes me anyone on here bothers responding to your fucking moronic dribbling.

 

I wouldn’t tolerate or humour you in the pub, on the street or anywhere else, so I see no reason to behave differently on the internet.

[Brownie]

Just now, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Just to confirm, I think you’re an absolute and utter twat and it amazes me anyone on here bothers responding to your fucking moronic dribbling.

 

I wouldn’t tolerate or humour you in the pub, on the street or anywhere else, so I see no reason to behave differently on the internet.

It also amazes me why people even bother trying to converse.

[deiseach]

3 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Just to confirm, I think you’re an absolute and utter twat and it amazes me anyone on here bothers responding to your fucking moronic dribbling.

 

I wouldn’t tolerate or humour you in the pub, on the street or anywhere else, so I see no reason to behave differently on the internet.

Incoming...

 

[Scooby Dudek]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

No go on.

 

3 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Just to confirm, I think you’re an absolute and utter twat and it amazes me anyone on here bothers responding to your fucking moronic dribbling.

 

I wouldn’t tolerate or humour you in the pub, on the street or anywhere else, so I see no reason to behave differently on the internet.

 

[Dr Nowt]

8 minutes ago, deiseach said:

Incoming...

 

Now we see the luvvies inherent in the system.

[Strontium]

4 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Mind reader of the 52% now are you?

 

Why would you need to read any minds. Just listen to all the Leave voters who've been saying that they were hoodwinked.

 

Anyone who claims that Theresa May's withdrawal deal is exactly what they were voting for is lying. Anyone who claims that a No Deal WTO-terms exit is exactly what they were voting for is lying. Nobody knew what "Brexit" would look like when they voted for it. That is a fact, and as I always say, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

A second vote on the known facts rather than a pack of lies would be a much more solid gauge of what the country actually wants.