Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Mate, Labour have just got absolutely twatted everywhere.

It's very obviously a shit policy 

The No Deal party are picking up most seats.

 

If you're taking tonight's results as an indicator of where Labour should go, are you advocating we switch to No Deal?

[mattyq]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I live in the North East and trust me when I say this, if Labour backs a 2nd referendum they will lose swathes of votes up here for a General Election.

I'm sure that's true, mate.

They'll lose more votes elsewhere if they don't change

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[mattyq]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The No Deal party are picking up most seats.

 

If you're taking tonight's results as an indicator of where Labour should go, are you advocating we switch to No Deal?

Really? Is that really what you're arguing? 

 

4 minutes ago, Brownie said:

If their policy was clearer, the results wouldn’t necessarily be any better. It’s just a case of moving votes around.

Ok, they better do nothing then, ignore the issue and hope it goes away.. what with votes just moving around and whatnot

 

[Brownie]

8 minutes ago, mattyq said:

I'm sure that's true, mate.

They'll lose more votes elsewhere if they don't change

I disagree, I think it’s the same pretty much either way. If it was as simple as you suggest then they’d be doing it.

[Brownie]

5 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

 

This, 100%.

[Brownie]

5 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Ok, they better do nothing then, ignore the issue and hope it goes away.. what with votes just moving around and whatnot

 

That’s exactly their strategy mate and I believe it was designed to decimate the Tories by letting them rip each other apart. Do you not think that’s happening?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Really? Is that really what you're arguing? 

 

I'm arguing that tonight's vote tells us absolutely nothing about any potential General Election results. The European elections have always been used as a vehicle for protest votes and have always had piss-poor turnouts. The results suggest that Labour have lost some votes to the Brexit Party and some votes to Lib Dems or Greens. They certainly don't present a compelling case for coming out either as full Remain or full Leave.

[mattyq]

7 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I disagree, I think it’s the same pretty much either way. If it was as simple as you suggest then they’d be doing it.

 

5 minutes ago, Brownie said:

That’s exactly their strategy mate and I believe it was designed to decimate the Tories by letting them rip each other apart. Do you not think that’s happening?

Yup, the Tories have been well and truly fucked but as of 1.10 am Labour have got 14% of the vote.

This doesn't look like a success to me; it looks like a disaster only marginally better than the Tories.

Every poll has suggested that Labour would gain votes if they shifted to Remain... 80% of Labour members, myself included, support Remain

Brexit support is slowly draining away ... Labour policy should be member driven as Corbyn promised. Support Remain and we'd win the next Election

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, mattyq said:

 

Yup, the Tories have been well and truly fucked but as of 1.10 am Labour have got 14% of the vote.

This doesn't look like a success to me; it looks like a disaster only marginally better than the Tories.

Every poll has suggested that Labour would gain votes if they shifted to Remain... 80% of Labour members, myself included, support Remain

Brexit support is slowly draining away ... Labour policy should be member driven as Corbyn promised. Support Remain and we'd win the next Election

I think you’re massively misguided, by suggesting that it’s so simple. This is a ridiculously complex issue and I think the strategy has always been to let the Tories own Brexit.

 

At some point the strategy has to evolve but it’s a tough thing to judge. They are losing votes to both leave and remain. If there’s a General Election soon and their message remains ambiguous then they lose. If they pivot to either side then I also think they lose to be honest.

 

I don’t see what they can do when you sit down and take a closer look at the figures.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I think you’re massively misguided, by suggesting that it’s so simple. This is a ridiculously complex issue and I think the strategy has always been to let the Tories own Brexit.

 

At some point the strategy has to evolve but it’s a tough thing to judge. They are losing votes to both leave and remain. If there’s a General Election soon and their message remains ambiguous then they lose. If they pivot to either side then I also think they lose to be honest.

 

I don’t see what they can do when you sit down and take a closer look at the figures.

I've noticed an increasing willingness to raise the issue of a possible confirmatory referendum, once Parliament agrees a Brexit deal. I think that's the way to do it; no sudden pivot, to line up with Alistair Campbell and Vince Cable, but a gradual change in emphasis, as the public mood creeps towards a position where we could be confident of winning a referendum. 

[Boss]

27 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Brexit support is slowly draining away ... Labour policy should be member driven as Corbyn promised. Support Remain and we'd win the next Election

 

 

 

[polymerpunkah]

If you were a LibDem or Brexit supporter, would you want an election before Brexit (whenever and in whatever form)?

 

Assuming this result does reflect GE intentions, wouldn't it give you more say in preventing/ensuring Brexit?

 

 

 

 

 

[Anubis]

Tommy Robbedinson.

 

Quote

 

Former English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson blamed the media, police and government interference for his failure to win a seat.

 

The Independent candidate claimed he faced a "near impossible task" because he was unable to get across his message on social media platforms - because he is banned.

 

There were loud cheers from rival parties at the count as he polled 38,908 votes, coming eighth.

 

 

[Jose Jones]

47 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Tommy Robbedinson.

 

 

He didn’t blame the milkshakes then, no?

[aRdja]

7 hours ago, skend04 said:

When's 35% a whitewash? 

 

Anyways, Islington voted Lib Dem. If we get that result in a GE we won't even have to ask members to get rid of Corbyn.

If you take Labour out of the equation, 46% of votes went to leave parties, 37% of votes went to remain parties. I don’t see how anyone could spin this as “Labour should’ve backed for a second referendum and supported remain more explicitly”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/26/european-election-latest-results-2019-uk-england-scotland-wales-ni-eu-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

If you take Labour out of the equation, 46% of votes went to leave parties, 37% of votes went to remain parties. I don’t see how anyone could spin this as “Labour should’ve backed for a second referendum and supported remain more explicitly”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/26/european-election-latest-results-2019-uk-england-scotland-wales-ni-eu-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

And, obviously, this wasn't a general election.

[aRdja]

5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

And, obviously, this wasn't a general election.

Of course, but if this was a single issue election, as some posters have stated, I think the country have spoken quite clearly and loudly, that they want out. If Corbyn was to firm up his Brexit stance, backing a second referendum, would surely be political suicide now.

[skend04]

42 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

If you take Labour out of the equation, 46% of votes went to leave parties, 37% of votes went to remain parties. I don’t see how anyone could spin this as “Labour should’ve backed for a second referendum and supported remain more explicitly”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/26/european-election-latest-results-2019-uk-england-scotland-wales-ni-eu-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

If you add Labour back in then presumably it's 54:46 remain? Or howsabout 36% No Deal and 64% for a deal?

 

This straw clutching for Corbyn's fence sitting on the one issue that is going to guide the country's governance for several decades is embarrassing now. 

[aRdja]

8 minutes ago, skend04 said:

If you add Labour back in then presumably it's 54:46 remain? Or howsabout 36% No Deal and 66% for a deal?

 

This straw clutching for Corbyn's fence sitting on the one issue that is going to guide the country's governance for several decades is embarrassing now. 

 

Labour have been accused of being fence-sitting or non-commital no? So the ardent remainers you would’ve thought would’ve defected to Lib-Dems and the hard brexiters to the Brexit party. The remainder are either happy with the current stance or could go either way. 

 

I read something on twitter earlier that was pretty scary, “80% of brexit voters want no-deal brexit”. That’s certainly food for thought. If Corbyn was to “get off the fence”, looking at this result, to have any chance of winning the next GE, he should back brexit more fervently.

[Jairzinho]

50 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Of course, but if this was a single issue election, as some posters have stated, I think the country have spoken quite clearly and loudly, that they want out. If Corbyn was to firm up his Brexit stance, backing a second referendum, would surely be political suicide now.

I'm not reading those numbers at all, although I agree entirely that backing a second referendum wouldn't necessarily be a good idea for Labour.

 

It looks really close. They were always going to lose votes to one side.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, viRdjil said:

If you take Labour out of the equation, 46% of votes went to leave parties, 37% of votes went to remain parties. I don’t see how anyone could spin this as “Labour should’ve backed for a second referendum and supported remain more explicitly”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/26/european-election-latest-results-2019-uk-england-scotland-wales-ni-eu-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

True. The luvvies on here wont like you for ponting out the facts thought

 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

And, obviously, this wasn't a general election.

See

[Skidfingers McGonical]

35 minutes ago, skend04 said:

If you add Labour back in then presumably it's 54:46 remain? Or howsabout 36% No Deal and 64% for a deal?

 

This straw clutching for Corbyn's fence sitting on the one issue that is going to guide the country's governance for several decades is embarrassing now. 

You don’t have chat some reactionary shite on this mate. 

[aRdja]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

True. The luvvies on here wont like you for ponting out the facts thought

 

What’s a luvvie?